Smart car Intercooler for TDI? |
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pictonroad
Yardie Joined: 20 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 614 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 10 at 11:57 |
I used to run a couple of RX7 FD3S twin turbos, these have tiny intercoolers as standard that are capable of flowing up to 350bhp in the car with standard ducting.
They're also practically worthless as people junk them when tuning (usually to no benefit but that's a different topic...) I've given a couple away, usually turn up for £20 ish.
Anyway, here's one:
I'm sure a bit of googling will bring up the dimensions, I'm meant to be working now....
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On the South Coast....
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Hillshy
Yardie Joined: 12 Jul 07 Location: Hatters Herts! Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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good question timmythedog,
Been lookin at both options for ages reading and reading everything that I could find and there lots open for debate, but what i have read time and time again is water is 4 times more absorbant than air when soaking up heat. We also have very different set up's then most folk in the car world as our engines are rear, so running large FMIC are out of the question for us! so we can considder installing one in the rear whilst trying to keep the pipe within 0.75 of a metre and trying to get fresh cool air into the intercooler, not impossible, but also not easy! charge cooling also lends itself here are we have the chargecooler rad up front and the chargecooler header tank in the rear, there's about 9 feet of hose in the system and lots of water, which helps with keeping the water cooler, if done correctly you shouldn't see the same part of water move through the chargecooler in the same boost cycle. cooler air bigger bang!
thats the idea anyway!
At the moment i'm going the same route and westyguesty and t3di, i'm currently fitting the subaru leg'y chargecooler, which incidently is black! and that's another no go as far as a bad heat spong colours. so that's going into the sand blaster to get back to ally before its fitted.
I also run a wrz scoobie which has a front mounted intercooler, on a hot day its still pants! you can really notice the power loss. on a cold day totally different beast.
Got the charge cooler rad fited up front below the oil cooler at the weekend and currently fitting the pump and routng the hoses to the rear. will post pics at some point.
if you go intercooler route, its needs to be ducted to be any good!
the smartcar intercooler is a good size!
good luck
Hills
Edited by Hillshy - 31 Aug 10 at 23:36 |
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1990 velle weekender(Hilli) AAZ
B5 Passat V6 TDI Tiptronic A3 PD170 s-line soon to be sold asap bloody pd engines! SUKI SJ410 on stilts |
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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Keep us upto date with your progress. |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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lock4rock
Yardie Joined: 11 Aug 09 Location: Woodley Reading Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Have just got a couple of smart car intercoolers off ebay.
As we know there is not a lot of room for a big one so i thought i would fit 2 small ones. If it works it works if not it was fun!!
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Rust, oil, sweat and blood.
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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Here's a webpage about the installation of a Polo intercooler.
It's in German but if you enter it into Google you can select the translate option. The translator gets it wrong in a couple of places but you can get the gist, although the bit about compensating for the loss of pressure is a bit vague. http://www.bullistammtisch.de/faq/llk.htm#1 These Polo intercoolers go for about 10 - 20 euro on German ebay. The author states that there is a performance increase but fails to prove it. Edited by Titus A Duxass - 31 Aug 10 at 07:15 |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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Cheers for the pics.
I will also look in to the charge cooler option. Initial ebay search shows reasonably priced options but as I have no idea research is called for. |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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timmythedog
Vanorak westy fetishist Joined: 29 May 08 Location: Nr Grenoble Status: Offline Points: 3415 |
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Yes, half of my spend was on the air filter and silicone hose, so i guess I spent about £75 on the intercooler bits and bobs. The cone does hum a bit though you're right, at around 50mph in top gear, so that's not ideal, but i'm cruising at 65mph. I'd love to know if there are any advantages at all to air to air intercooling? I guess just cost usually. I wonder if charge cooling wins hands down in all respects?
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Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151 89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1 Caravelle GL AFN tdi 53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor. 88 DG Panel(uncut) calypso Atlantic pop. |
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T3di
Vanorak Joined: 23 Aug 05 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 3099 |
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I wanted to run the stock airbox set up though, as I found those cones up the side vent create a lot of buzz in the rear of the van, so needed a system where it didn't matter within reason where the unit was placed.
Also you don't need forced airflow over the cooler with those. |
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T3di
Vanorak Joined: 23 Aug 05 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 3099 |
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yep, but maybe I got lucky, paid £165 and including everything bar the plastic 15mm pipes (b and q)
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timmythedog
Vanorak westy fetishist Joined: 29 May 08 Location: Nr Grenoble Status: Offline Points: 3415 |
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I was going to buy that Oettinger one off jed the Spread and was an hour late. I will have a look at the chargecooler option next time round, but didn't realise a viable kit could be bought for that sort of money. Did you get a radiator as well from the RS?
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Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151 89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1 Caravelle GL AFN tdi 53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor. 88 DG Panel(uncut) calypso Atlantic pop. |
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T3di
Vanorak Joined: 23 Aug 05 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 3099 |
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Seems a lot of hacking and messing when you can just get a chargecooler from ebay with pump and tank for maybe £150> , also the subaru legacy (water cooled cooler) one looks a good option.
I ran a chargecooler from an RS turbo, no dicking about, fitted in a day, short pipe runs, just a bit of pissing about with silicone hoses (realised the hard way you shouldn't skimp there). Ford focus kits including all the gubbins look viable as do these V shaped generic ones for about a 100 quid on ebay. |
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timmythedog
Vanorak westy fetishist Joined: 29 May 08 Location: Nr Grenoble Status: Offline Points: 3415 |
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Firstly I should say i'm a bit of a bodger who does it all in a hurry cos I can't wait to see the results, so a lot of thoughtful tidying up could be done here!
I have kicked out the air vent by a couple of inches to (hopefully) increase airflow.
Induction cone filter mounted a on a simple bracket behind the battery and connected to original turbo inlet pipes via a length of silicone hose, as per photo below.
Both boot corners are sealed off(90%) with some old thermal window panels which are glued into place. It would be better to velcro these for easy removal. Hence, i cannot show a top shot of the intercooler cos i don't want to peel the panel open!
Pipe work was all scavanged bits of Jx and tdi golf which are bodged together with sealants, internal collars(from the golf) and jubilee clips. Lower hose comes away from turbo with JX turbo pipe then feeds between the engine cradle and chassis and up through a hole in wheel arch to intercooler. This needs tidying up and sealing off properly but is largely protected by mudguard. Intercooler to inlet manifold is 2 hoes bonded, with a small section of silicone too. I have a got a modified JX inlet that has the inlet moved to the top plate and this would be better but it's fine as is.
Last one. View from underneath of outlet face of intercooler shrouded in some aluminium box section that I came by! Intercooler is a 1Z. I have bonded a 7inch(i think) electric fan on top of it which runs permanently.
Does it work well? I don't know. I could easily bypass it to compare old and new, but it certainly feels a lot quicker. I have nudged the fuelling up about an eigth turn. The van will accellerate willingly up hills in fourth gear. It pulls strongly, and revs out to 4000 with no fuss, but pulls like a train between 2000 and 3200rpm. the whole set up cost me about £150 so i can't complain. It does require the butchering off a bit of panel work though and as mine happened to be pretty crispy anyway it wasn't too painful.
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Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151 89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1 Caravelle GL AFN tdi 53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor. 88 DG Panel(uncut) calypso Atlantic pop. |
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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Have you got any pics of your install? I am going do this road this winter and you sound like you've had success here. |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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timmythedog
Vanorak westy fetishist Joined: 29 May 08 Location: Nr Grenoble Status: Offline Points: 3415 |
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Aah. I don't think it's too tricky. There are sources for modified clutches. Futbus will skim and balance for you. An AAZ conversion is deemed to be the easier and cheaper route to go though. Or, spend some money on the JX and intercool that?
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Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151 89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1 Caravelle GL AFN tdi 53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor. 88 DG Panel(uncut) calypso Atlantic pop. |
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Stephen Greece
Yardie Joined: 18 May 07 Location: Thessaloniki GR Status: Offline Points: 537 |
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You are right, If the golf one clears ok, it does sound like the most appropriate. Currently i am beeing put off with the conversion reading the clutch thread....
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More time spent under it than in it....
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timmythedog
Vanorak westy fetishist Joined: 29 May 08 Location: Nr Grenoble Status: Offline Points: 3415 |
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if you're looking at a donor car, then get the intercooler from that.
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Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151 89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1 Caravelle GL AFN tdi 53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor. 88 DG Panel(uncut) calypso Atlantic pop. |
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timmythedog
Vanorak westy fetishist Joined: 29 May 08 Location: Nr Grenoble Status: Offline Points: 3415 |
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I used an induction cone filter in right hand corner feeding a silicone hose along the back of engine bay. Some people like to use a selection of oem parts especially if selling their conversion on to customers so that there's a proper part number for everything and it has a factory look. Keeps it all neat and tidy. I don't reckon intercooler pipes to rh corner would be too long. Most golfs, passats etc.. have intercooler pipework runing round the engine bay. The thought is that if your pipe works too long you get turbo lag.
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Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151 89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1 Caravelle GL AFN tdi 53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor. 88 DG Panel(uncut) calypso Atlantic pop. |
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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The new airbox is installed in its place. TBH you'd be better off looking a fitting an intercooler from a Golf, they're a little more expensive but would cope with the flow requirements. |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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Stephen Greece
Yardie Joined: 18 May 07 Location: Thessaloniki GR Status: Offline Points: 537 |
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So it is small then.. pipework short,hmm... why does the battery have to move to the front? Its on the right hand side?
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More time spent under it than in it....
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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After more reading.
It appears that the intake and outlet are smaller than the JX Turbo intake, so you're not going to get the optimal airflow. Don't forget that this intercooler was for a 700cc motor. |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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