REMAPPING? |
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VW master-tech
Yardie Joined: 28 Aug 09 Location: bedfordshire Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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Posted: 08 Mar 10 at 23:47 |
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Was asked to create this subject as a new thread just as a warning for all you guys with chipped vans still under warranty.................
Strange the ecu remap was lost did you have an ECU software update done as well,be warned folks that if you have a remap and your van requires an Update like they do for emissions faults etc the ecu will be reset to the factory spec also if the dealer suspects that your van has been chipped and it is still under warranty when the factory ask for the diagnois printouts it will show up and i have heard of the factory writing off engine warranties because of a remap.
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VW WORX VCDS retrofitting and coding carried out, cruise control, mfsw, dis, locking adaptions pm for a quote
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VW master-tech
Yardie Joined: 28 Aug 09 Location: bedfordshire Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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yes the factory can see dont get me wrong as a dealer we can not tell if it has been remapped however there has been various occassions that i have been asked to provide 1 screen shot of a 8 digit number and send it to the vw technical department they then forward it to the factory and if it has been changed from factory spec they cancel the engine warranty for that vehicle and the dealer doesnt get paid for the warranty repair usual repairs include failed turbos,cracked/warped exhaust manifolds or repeated driveshaft failures
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VW WORX VCDS retrofitting and coding carried out, cruise control, mfsw, dis, locking adaptions pm for a quote
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energysolutions
Vanorak Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: Earth (For Now) Status: Offline Points: 3684 |
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Taken from Celtics website:
How will the remap affect my warranty?Contrary to popular statements no one can say for 100% certainty that the remap will be undetectable. However, the modification to the software will not show up on any main dealer diagnostic equipment and therefore unless you tell them that it has been done, they will be none the wiser. |
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!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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VW master-tech
Yardie Joined: 28 Aug 09 Location: bedfordshire Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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which to a certain affect is true the dealer cannot tell but the factory can tell if it has been changed from original factory settings VW are very protective about what goes into there ECUs
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VW WORX VCDS retrofitting and coding carried out, cruise control, mfsw, dis, locking adaptions pm for a quote
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energysolutions
Vanorak Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: Earth (For Now) Status: Offline Points: 3684 |
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Another quote from Angel tuning:
How will it affect my warranty?
There is no change needed to any hardware for engine remapping and in the main is both physically and diagnostically undetectable. |
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!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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energysolutions
Vanorak Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: Earth (For Now) Status: Offline Points: 3684 |
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It seems the remap companies choose their words regarding this topic very carefully....... |
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!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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energysolutions
Vanorak Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: Earth (For Now) Status: Offline Points: 3684 |
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Torquetronix.....
Q: What about my insurance?A:This is up to you. We have to advise that you inform your insurance companies that the remap has been carried out but it is extremely difficult to detect. Ultimately it is your responsibility.
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!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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mrhutch
Moderator Group the ginger princess Joined: 21 Aug 07 Location: Herefordshire Status: Offline Points: 5147 |
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very interesting all you modern-types... what occurs if
isn't done?
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T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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Ex-car bloke
Vanorak Joined: 17 Jan 06 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 1612 |
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I don't know about you other guys but I cashed in a 15 year investment plan to buy my T5 new 4 years ago and I'm not on a high income, so the idea of messing with any of the factory settings to squeeze out a few extra bhp seems like an unneccesary and crazy risk to me.
I'll stick with my 174 horses and my standard (very nice) torque curve, thanks, and if anything goes bang at least I won't be wishing I hadn't got a remap.
It'll be interesting to see how all the DMFs, gearboxes, driveshafts, tyres, turbos etc etc cope with the remaps over the long-term, or will you all sell-on before the miles stack up and pass the problems to someone else?
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ECB 2006 SWB 174 window van
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kawolsky
Vanorak Joined: 12 Mar 09 Location: Devon Status: Offline Points: 1284 |
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I was under the impression that most people had their remap done when the warranty has expired. A friend of mine has just had his 59 plate sportline kombi remapped, well pleased with it. I'm not going down that route, even more so after reading this thread.
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Tim the gas
Yardie Joined: 05 Dec 09 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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I waited 5 years till I got my 54 plate 174 remapped.
What you guys are saying about bits expiring early may be true if you always drive your van like you stole it. I still treat my van carefully because I paid £18400+VAT for it in 2004. I drove mine in standard format for all that time but now it's remapped it is so much nicer to drive.More low end torque,better MPG, more tractability - none of that on/off power characteristic that the standard map supplies. My van has only just turned 72,000 miles and I need it every day to run my business so I don't cane around in it. It is just nicer to drive now and it has a bit more power to safely overtake now and then. It also doesn't notice as much when it's loaded up with weight either. Think of it as a fine tuning tool and not "it's gonna blow up before long" |
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2004 T30 174-AXE- CELTIC MAPPED TO 228 BHP - LWB TORNADO RED PANEL VAN
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energysolutions
Vanorak Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: Earth (For Now) Status: Offline Points: 3684 |
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I would agree with that, a sensibly driven remapped van (particulary one thats owner driven/needed to earn money) is probably a safer bet than a non remapped communial work van that everybody rags and no one gives a shit about.........
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!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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kernow
Vanorak Joined: 26 Jun 07 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1464 |
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I can understand the "i don't thrash my van " reasoning , and its celtic's claims of massive power in particular that make me sceptical .
here is my reason for this scepticism ok the max BHP figure is obtained at 3500 rpm , thats a rev range you can choose to use or avoid depending on how you drive .
However the massive increase in torque is shown at jusT 2300 rpm , which is a rev range thats in regular daily use .
Now please correct me if iam mistaken but its got be mainly extra turbo boost that is being used to create this torque increase and that has to be creating more heat in the engine and strain on the turbo which are the things that are being reported as failing , ie warped manifolds .
Iam tempted at the superchips remap with a much more conservative power increase but still need convincing of that . As for the celtic remap , I still have lots of mates in the motor trade and they all shake thier heads when i mention the power figures , and say thats just too much ?? Edited by kernow - 03 Apr 10 at 17:20 |
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my bigest fear is that when I die the missus will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them
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Tim the gas
Yardie Joined: 05 Dec 09 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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I'm still on my original clutch,DMF,turbo,driveshafts- even water pump etc. I have always driven the van sensibly and always let the van idle on my driveway for several minutes after getting home to keep the turbo bearings lubricated with pressurised oil and allow the turbo to spool down before shutting the motor off. I think some people don't realise how important that is to turbo longevity as maybe they are not mechanically minded. Turbo's when fully boosted up can run as high as 100,000 rpm and if you've been driving hard and got home and turned the key off then there's zero oil pressure feeding your turbo bearings and that means more wear on the turbo shaft and early failure. However, all moving mechanical parts will wear out sooner or later and need replacement and the better you look after those parts will dictate how long they last. I don't think that my remap will shorten the life of anything unless I can't control my right foot. But I can control mine. |
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2004 T30 174-AXE- CELTIC MAPPED TO 228 BHP - LWB TORNADO RED PANEL VAN
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zedzedeleven
Vanorak Joined: 05 Jan 06 Location: west cumbria Status: Offline Points: 1169 |
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Suppose I took my van, a humble 85ps and asked the tuner to increase it to a modest 102? It would still be in the vw recommended power output (because they make one). No harm in that surely? Just had another thought. Suppose I took it in to a vw service centre and asked them to do it? Think they would? or could?
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1.9 85ps swb 2004 in friesan green.
bring me sunshine. |
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energysolutions
Vanorak Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: Earth (For Now) Status: Offline Points: 3684 |
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Supposedly your 85PS engine is the same as the 102PS engine which is the same as the 130PS engine found in Golfs etc
Considering Celtic claim they can get 165PS out of these I would imagine 102PS should be OK, particulary as VW make a 102PS........
A VW service centre probably could but wouldnt as it aint company policy
Certain manufacturers do offer official remaps though, Mercedes and SAAB I believe, no doubt there are others
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!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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Bronco
Newbie Joined: 07 Mar 10 Location: The Lakes Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Hi.
When I was looking at a van through a VW dealer, the sales man said they offered a plug in box that would boost power (102 to 130) and was just attached to the existing wires. I think he said it overode the ECU in some way. (£499).
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gregozedobe
Vanorak Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266 |
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All the plug-in boxes I've looked at only alter the fuel injection, not the amount of boost. So they "sort-of" override the ECU, but only in a very limited way. If I was spending that sort of money I would want a complete remap.
As far as detecting a remap, I understand that there is a number stored in each ECU about how many times it has been flashed. Some remaps reset this number back to one, some just let it add one to the existing number, and the "least easy to detect" ones leave it unchanged. Of course it would be easy to log some simple things like the amount of boost the turbo is allowed to make and how much fuel is injected and when; and once these parameters are compared with the known values of a stock std engine then it will be obvious that the ECU has been remapped.
IMO if you are strictly honest and ethical then losing your VW warranty is part of the price you to pay if you want to modify your van. If you want to keep your warranty, then you shouldn't be changing it via remaps, suspension, wheels etc.
VW have every right not to cover any repair work and/or parts needed that may reasonably be blamed on changes, which in the case of a remap (or tuning box) will be putting increased stress on a lot of components due to more torque, more power and more heat.
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kawolsky
Vanorak Joined: 12 Mar 09 Location: Devon Status: Offline Points: 1284 |
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Was in Cordwallis Maidenhead service desk a few years ago and they has Superchips leaflets on the counter. Wifes Mini cooper S has a JCW tuning kit which includes a remap, supplied and fitted by BMW. Puts bhp up to near 200... it's fast. |
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T5 TDI
Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687 |
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I did think about getting mine chipped for more low down power rather than more BHP (174 is enough for what I need and I can't afford the tyres) I agree with Gregs comments about detecting remaps by checking boost levels etc. Mind you, not so easy if the engine has already blown up.... Just out of interest here is what VCDS had to say about the flash status on my (still unchipped van) a while back.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Address 01: Engine Control Module Part Number: 070 997 016 D Component and/or Version: R5 2,5L EDC G000SG 7596 Software Coding: 0001072 Work Shop Code: WSC 00358 Advanced Identification
Serial number: VWZ7Z0C8389072 Identification: BPG-810 Revision: 12345678 Date: 18.10.03 Manufacturer number: 0065 Test stand number: 1866 Flash Status Programming Attempts: 0 Successful Attempts: 1 Programming Status: 00000000 Required Conditions: 00000001 Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000 Flash Date: 00.00.00 Software 22.12 U8C3 Misc. Hardware number: 028 101 073 3 Car Info Chassis Number: WV1ZZZ7HZ******** |
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2004 2.5 174
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