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Scruff Daddy

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lowering.
    Posted: 14 Jan 06 at 16:51

Okay, loads of lowering questions and we keep going over the same stuff so I've written this..

So, you want to lower your van, well done, you've made a wise choice.

Lowering your van will..

  • Improve the way it handles
  • Improve braking
  • Stop you wandering about so much on the motorways.
  • Reduce the amount of buffeting you get from wagons/coaches on the motorway
  • And probably the reason most of you lower your vans, to improve it's looks

How low?

From the factory VW did a 30mm drop and was fitted to Caravelles, Multivans and most of the special editions as well as being optional on anything else, with the 30mm lower springs you also got shorter front bumpstops but used the standard shock absorbers.

Aftermarket lowering kits seem to start at about 45mm and go down to 80mm, but...

45mm kits are fine, not much you need to do, you can just fit the springs, maybe just trim a rib or so from the bumpstop at the front and it will work perfectly well. 45mm kits are excellent for those who want to maintain a reasonable amount of comfort or for those with heavier campers who want the benefits of being lower but still want to be able to get accross rough campsites. Can be used with standard shock absorbers but replacement is recommended as the ones on your van will probably be the ones it came out of the factory with!

60mm kits are probably the most popular, but when going down 60mm there are a few more things you need to take into consideration.

  • You will ideally need to fit shorter piston shock absorbers, due to the spring being shorter you run the risk of bottoming out the shock absorber, not nice!
  • If using the original bumpstops you will need to trim them down by approx 2 ribs, if not your shock absorbers will be constantly running on the bumpstops giving a choppy, harsh and bouncy ride.
  • If using reasonably wide wheels you run the risk of clipping the wheel arches on full lock, trimming back the return lip or rolling the arches may help. It's difficult to say what will and what won't catch as everyone has different wheel widths, tyres, spacer combinations, a case of suck it and see im affraid.

70mm kits, to me are too low, you run out of camber adjustment at the front end, when lowering a van you have to reset the camber and tracking as when the suspension get lower the front camber gets more negative and the tracking changes. Up to 60mm you can just about manage to reset the camber to such a point to where it will go back to factory setting but the adjusters are pretty much on the limits, any lower and the adjusters will be at full adjustment, you end up with negative camber, your steering will be heavy with less self centering and you will scrub your tyres off on the inside.

80mm kits, daft, okay, yeah, how cool are you, all the downsides of 70mm plus you probably don't have a bumpstop in there now so you run the risk of the top arm hitting the seat box! You probably have to run smaller tyres so they don't constantly rub on the inside of the arch and because of this your speedo is on the piss because you have smaller tyres. Also at the rear there is next to no movement in the spring before it hits the bumpstop. Waste of money (In my opinion)

IMPORTANT!

After lowering by any amount you MUST have the front steering geometry checked and reset. As stated above, as the van gets lower the front wheels get more negative camber, this WILL scrub off your tyres and give dubious handling characteristics.
The tracking also changes, again once your lower and camber has been sorted then reset the tracking to keep you on the straight and narrow and keep the tread on your tyres!

What kit to get?

Loads of choice out there now, not like a few years ago, the Germans are the masters of doing things right, do you see them going lower than 60mm? nope.

H&R springs, probably the best available, quite expensive, you get what you pay for!

Sachs, again not the cheapest but good.

JK (Just Kampers) Not sure who makes their springs, shockers by ALKO, bit more heavy duty than stock, kit works well.

Koni shock absorbers, respected and loved in Germany

Bilstien shock absorbers, Expensive, standard shocks are good, their sport shockers are very stiff indeed!

G-max, great budget kit but for the price your better spending that little extra and getting something a little better.

Spax, UK made, available from Halfords of all places, they work well.

AVO, my favorite, I would say that as I sell them! 45mm and 60mm drops available, 22 point adjustable shockers let you tailor the ride to your own tastes, come with poly bushes. best comprimise for features and cost.

Who?

T3 tuning Bilstein, Koni, H&R

Just Kampers Their own kit

Brickwerks AVO 45mm and 60mm kits, plus fitting service!  

 

 

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Coprophagous Cretin

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 06 at 22:10
good stuff!

mine is 60mm AVO (as you well know) and its too low. It looks cool as frozen pizza, but its gradually slicing the shoulders off my tyres.

So its going up a bit to 45.

Simon, do you still have the measurements we took when we lowered it?
Or even the photos that we took before/after?

Would be interesting to see how much its settles...

I should add that the main problem is the front wheels, i think with a slightly different offset i'd be okay, but thes A3 wheels are quite "sticky-outy"*





*technical term.


Edited by Tee3

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 20:03
Well explained as per usual that man!!!... ....if the BPV ever gets running properly.. ....will come and have a steering check up matey next time ooop north!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 06 at 10:14
    I have about 15-20 ,photos ,on how to Lower ,useing a AVO kit !
       includeing tools required ,  no writeing just pictures ,anyuse here ?, they need hosting ,or i can e mail em ,if someone wants to eddit and add some blurb .  mark
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Scruff Daddy

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 06 at 17:56
Already got it mate, cheers for offer though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 19:04
I've seen a nutter in Essex with a green T3 pick up and he has removed the springs completly. Relying on the tyres for suspension i think. Looks cool but he better watch out in case he has a crash. It won't seem so cool then
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 14:07
Well Michael if you're selling a slightly second hand AVO 70mm kit, I would be interested.  Will you be doing your yourself or will Brickwerks be undertaking.  Perhaps the 2 vans need to be done simultaenously !!  Cheers Marko

Edited by type25marko
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Scruff Daddy

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 18:26

I'll probably be taking the 60mm springs off and swapping for 45's.

Didn't think he wanted to bother until he had a buyer for the 60's.

Mail him and set wheels in motion!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 18:35

Already did, are the shocks the same on 45 & 60's or will they go ?

While you're around Simon, what cost to lower 60mm & upgrade bushes inc labour, assume all new kit ? Can it be all done in a day ?



Edited by type25marko
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 19:30

some great info there Si. When i get mine done was going to go 60mm but will consider a 45mm drop instead now.

fair play to taking the time to write that

laterz

skeeb

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 21:25

Labour for lowering  - £50

Bushes, pff, theres a list at work and theres a thread on here somewhere with the prices.

All can be done in a day with ease so long as nowts knackered.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 21:29
Yes, shockers are same.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 21:37
Blimey - wish i lived near huddersfield.... 
I cant get someone to change a wiper blade for £50 down south. Was quoted "approx £200" from several places for labour to change springs to lowered ones - one quote from a specialist, the other a local independent garage, and my local VW van dealership (who have been ace with other VW cars I've owned, reckoned on similar! - 2-3 hours work I think he said)

Whilst i can do it myself, I'd be over there tomorrow for that rate (but for the 500 mile round trip in a 2.1 petrol!)

Good on ya, and lucky for those oop norf.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 18:46

Originally posted by calvin calvin wrote:

Blimey - wish i lived near huddersfield.... 
I cant get someone to change a wiper blade for £50 down south. Was quoted "approx £200"

yup.. you end up doing everything yourself if you want to or nawt!


Im not a forum anorack, im just at work ;)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 06 at 22:28
But if you want to use the van for anything as uncouth as camping... then ground clearance is a wonderful thing!

The list of benefits is all theoretical anyway. If you want it to handle, fit some better tyres, uprate the shocks but leave the springs alone.

Lowering is all about looks, and extreme lowering just looks stupid anyway.... in my humble opinion.

It's a VAN!! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 06 at 22:33

Horses for courses.

Live and let live.

Ignorance leads to hatred.

 

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mehcedes...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 15:11

I had good tyres fitted and it wobbled like a Weeble.

Now lowered , no wobble and it don't fall down.

Have you driven a lowered bus to compare to an un-lowered one ?

What da ya mean - it's a VAN !    

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 18:58
    The race van has been droped 70mm on adjustable AVO"S (realy nice kit !) and i felt it handled much better, less bother from x winds on motorways and it went much better around corners and a improvement in breaking ,as u know ,i use it to haul parts ,daily drive it ,move furniture race it (vwdrc) and field camp in it ! cant say  i have had any issues with the hight ,even over speed bumps,and it looks cool (bonus!).
 what has realy made a diferance is haveing the whole thing set up corectly by Si , including the polly bush kit and the braided hose kit ,
plain and simple these are improvments ...BIG improvements theres nothing theoretical in the way it drives now !!

  ps ITs an atitude !


Edited by germ man
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 06 at 16:59
Well, my van is not for show. It's a hard worker and the places I take it it NEEDS ground clearance. Could do with a Syncro really..

As far as handling goes, mines on 5.5x15 EMPI 5s with Toyo 195/75 tyres and standard shocks and springs but it still handles OK I reckon. It wouldn't out-corner my quattro I'll grant you, but then niether would any of your lowered vans...

I still get all kinds of vehicles getting under the feet when I'm driving on country roads so it can't be bad. 
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Scruff Daddy

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 06 at 17:51

...but it could be better.

Hence lowering.

Look, if you don't like lowered vans just browse past, it's not a problem.

 

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