why not copper 32mm coolant pipe? |
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waltraud
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 294 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 09:48 |
Was wondering about using domestic 32mm copper pipe to make up some new front to back colant pipes with a silicone connector in the middle like the JK stainless ones..partly for ease of fitting. I know someone non here or 80-90 has done this but perhaps on a diesel? I've got dg 1.9 petrol and wondered if anyone had used and fitted the stainless pipes and if so because they are in two parts and shorter than plastic can they be fited without taking the petrol tank out? thanks.
NB Go Westy sell a kit with copper pipe inserts for the plastic pipes as they say that the metal inserts can come loose and pipes split or come off causing calamty. Are they just raising anxieties unnecessarily? thanks. Tim NB DF solex and manifold for sale £40- |
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1983 Joker pop-top Waltraud 1.9DG
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Mike_
Groupie Joined: 02 Jul 08 Location: Leicesterish Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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I got some stainless pipes from Gunzl a couple of years ago, can't comment of the quality of the JK ones but Gunzl's were spot on. You will have to drop the tank as there is a clamp just infront of the xmember, I spent about half an hour wondering why I couldn't pull the old pipes out, then once I saw the clamp I tried cutting it with a hacksaw blade but couldn't get to it.
If you've not dropped the tank before there's a good chance the fuel pipes will be perished and need replacing anyway, if you have then at least all the bolts will undo easily
No idea if using copper is a good idea, I've seen posts advising not to use stainless because of galvanic corrosion, my view is that I'd rather use the van than have it sat on the drive broken and as long as decent antifreeze is used it will take years to have a significant effect.
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waltraud
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 294 |
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Very philosophical of you, not to say just practical...am also aware of inconclusive arguments but because Go westy were using these copper inserts it got me thinking why not copper pipes bent like the gunzl ones......i expect JK use the same supplier but don't know this. Have also recently seen some thick wall plastic tube but i'm aware its not that easy as needs to withstand pressure and heats.
Good to know that tank needs dropping and i guess i had in mind that its worth seeing whats above it, condition of hoses etc etc. Is there anything else to buy in advance apart from the hose for breathers from tank? cheers Tim- |
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1983 Joker pop-top Waltraud 1.9DG
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Mike_
Groupie Joined: 02 Jul 08 Location: Leicesterish Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Get some new hose clips for the rad/engine/heater hoses, some big cable ties, and some strip steel or equivalent as you'll probably have to make replacements for the straps that hold the pipes to the chassis.
Other than that plusgas everything a week in advance of doing the job, get the van as high as you can and use a creeper if poss, you'll be moving from one end to the other frequently.
Good luck
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johnb
Yardie Joined: 06 Apr 08 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 953 |
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From how similar systems work in the day job, I would suspect that connecting copper pipes to your aluminium engine would lead to the engine sacrificially corroding to protect the pipes. The problem is that there is a big electro-potential between aluminium and copper. Non-metallic would be ideal.
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My van is better known in these parts than I am
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Mike_
Groupie Joined: 02 Jul 08 Location: Leicesterish Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Thats alright, it's much easier to swap an engine than changing those pipes
Seriously though, I thought the corrosion inhibitors in the antifreeze were there to minimise this, plus the dissimilar metals are seperated by several feet of rubber and unless I'm mistaken lots of radiators have copper cores with no ill effects.
I'm not saying there will be no effect but I'd be interested to know how long it would take to cause significant damage.
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johnb
Yardie Joined: 06 Apr 08 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 953 |
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I think, as you say, it depends on the corrosion inhibitors. The copper and the aluminium are connected though chassis earth and through the coolant, which acts as an electolyte. I guess the answer is, keep on top of your antifreeze.
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My van is better known in these parts than I am
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waltraud
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 294 |
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Thanks men, i'm tipping towards ss pipes at present but we'll see if some good plastic dg 32mm pipes come my way............cheeers. Tim
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1983 Joker pop-top Waltraud 1.9DG
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Aidan
Vanorak Joined: 25 Sep 04 Location: Llanfyllin Status: Offline Points: 1081 |
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apart from the issue of electrovalent corrosion due to copper being top of the scale and the steel and alloys being much lower 32mm copper isn't light pipe and difficult to manipulate
blue polypipe isn't stable in uv light and not designed for hot water but might be suitable - just don't know anyone who's been desperate enough to try it though someone must have.
Brickie is supposed to be doing new ss inserts for the ends of the pipe which should do the job nicely, it's a low pressure system so should work fine, polypipe in houses using push fits work on high pressure systems hot and cold with just a little insert to reinforce the join.
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Aidan Talbot, gearboxes for watercooled engines, 4, 5 speed and syncro front and rear rebuilt. 01691 648011, 07817 377938....www.aidantalbot.co.uk
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Guests
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Not a great problem unless your van spends a lot of time on it's roof Just did a little scouting around and found this plastic pipe 150 degrees should be sufficient and up to 5 bar - only problem is the wall thickness. There must be other suitable products out there.Could use rubber hose throughout I suppose such as here hose Edited by oldiebut goodie - 04 Oct 09 at 00:53 |
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pmpg
Newbie Joined: 28 Nov 07 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I used flexible stainless steel gas pipe. very easy to fit. It has a light rubber coating and can be bent into any position. Fitted three years now. Any gas plumber would have it.
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rjes
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 17 Sep 07 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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There's a page on my site about cooling system plumbing materils choice for alloy engines. See http://www.rjes.com/html/material_choice.html for an unbiased explanation of the physics. In summary, it's no coincidence that OEM's stopped using copper radiators years ago - around when alloy cylinder heads were introduced, or that they mever use stainless. It's because they are unsuitable for alloy engines. Steel is about the best metal there is - which is why OEM's use steel pipes and fittings all over alloy engines.
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waltraud
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 294 |
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That very helpful info. Sounds like i shall get some s/h plastic pipes, maybe will even get some 32 mm ones to save on pipe reducers cost. Does anyone know if the go westy argument of plastic pipes failing and blowing is accurate and whether as your site suggests Richard that 'small amounts' of stainless as inserts for plastic coolant pipes would be ok?
thanks Tim |
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1983 Joker pop-top Waltraud 1.9DG
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waltraud
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 08 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 294 |
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so alloy pipe used to connect rubber hoses or even front to back would be ok......wonder why no one's made alloy pipes? hmmmm Tim
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1983 Joker pop-top Waltraud 1.9DG
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