Power steering conversion |
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Ghia
Vanorak Nesh Joined: 04 Mar 05 Location: Banbury Status: Offline Points: 2889 |
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Good info Rjes, especially on the collapsible sections for safety and OEM parts... looking forward to seeing this kit on the market.
MG Edited by Ghia - 28 Apr 09 at 18:28 |
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rjes
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 17 Sep 07 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Hello brick-yard folks,
As somebody above mentioned I am also working on an direct electric steering assistance system. I have had prototypes installed in my daily driver Syncro (complete with 255 tyres to give it a thorough test) for 16 months. The system currently installed is the third (and hopefully final) prototype of the mechanical side of the installation. The testing has gone very well so far.
My system is fully speed sensitive, as I consider a dash adjustable fixed rate of assistance (like the control modules available on the internet) dangerous, having tried them. If you turn dash adjustable, fixed rate assistance up when parking, then turn out of the car park on to a dual carriageway without turning it down, you could literally spin the wheel with your little finger at 60mph if you tried, with no feedback through the steering at all. I spent a lot of time trying to find a single fixed amount of assistance which is acceptable at both high and low speeds, and there simply isn't one. Im my system, shape of the speed / assistance curve is adjustable, within limits, to allow it to be set to suit your tyres and preferences. It won't allow you to adjust it to give massisve amounts of excessive assistance reletive to the speed. I may also do a preset version, set to suit a typical T3 installation in which the owner does not want to treat the setting as an experiment. I need to do a bit more experimenting with preset versions before making the decision.
I have tested all the electrical failure modes I can think of such as loss of input signals, etc, and the system responded in a very controlled way in each case, with the effects on driveability less severe than if the belt snapped on a hydraulic power steering system.
As with all my produsts, the design philisophy is to achieve the closest possible quality to an OEM installation (especially for something as critical as steering), but in a way which is suitable for low volume manufacture. My installation features two seperate fully collapsible sections, one in the upper and one in the lower column sections (there is only one in the original VW installation). All torque transmitting joins in the system are splined (no welds, etc), and are designed and manufactured by OEM steering specialists. I also have product liability insurance for my products, including the power steering project. I suspect that my insurers will rule out exports of the steering system to the US though. I suggest that anyone manufacturing any kind of safety critical product without product liability cover probably ought to do a product liability course to find out why having cover should be within their interests.
Once I have finished developing and productionising the system, I will be offering a complete kit, which will comprise of the EPAS unit, the control electronics, the speed sensor system, a cowl to hide the system away under the dash, a wiring harness, and full instructions. LHD and RHD kits will be available. The RHD kit will be a true 'bolt-on' installation, and the LHD kit will require some minor, but unavoidable trim mods. Installation of the complete kit would take just a few hours, and will easily suited to a moderately competent DIYer. I may also sell the speed sensitive, calibratable control system seperately, for use in non VW applications.
This is very much a project which I am fitting in the development work for as and when, around my Subaru conversion products work, which usually keeps my busy for more hours per week than I would ideally choose to work. Therefore I don't have any 'available by' dates. It is not 'just around the corner'. I would estimate that 85% of the work is done, with the remaining 15% being productionising the electronics and harness, and finishing the development of the cowl moulding. I have sourced suppliers for all but two (hopefully relatively simple) components.
There will be no info on www.rjes.com about this power steering products until they are available, and I'm afraid I am not going to be answering technical questions about how parts of it work. Someone has already taken advantage of my previous willingness to discuss why speed sensitive assistance is necessary and the details of how my system works. Having already had one of my Subaru conversion products copied, I now discuss the engineering behind my products with very very few people I'm afraid, especially before they are in production. I'm really sorry if this makes me seem paranoid, but I object to others benefiting from my work.
I have a growing mailing list of potential customers for the power steering system, and I will be sending information to those on the list up front, nearer the time. Edited by rjes - 27 Apr 09 at 03:43 |
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B1GVUU
Groupie Joined: 12 Apr 08 Location: Stoke-on-Trent Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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Thanks Tim will have to put the manual adjust one on for now until you get hold of any
cheers John
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WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPOSIBILITY
1967 SPLIT 2004 T5 2.5 TDI 2004 T5 1.9 TDI 2012 FIAT 500 ABARTH 1971 FIAT 500D |
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VW Nerd
Yardie Joined: 20 Jan 08 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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I am still trying to get the speed sensor ring part of the system made up (in China)
Not best pleased with the rate of progress I am looking to find a uk manufacturer to make things easier! Keep in touch Tim
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Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.
Tim Shettle www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk Bristol Tel/txt 07810 320 464 AFN TDI Panel Van |
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B1GVUU
Groupie Joined: 12 Apr 08 Location: Stoke-on-Trent Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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any news on the speed sensor kit i could do with two of them asap just need the speed sensor parts though not the column got that sorted
cheers john
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WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPOSIBILITY
1967 SPLIT 2004 T5 2.5 TDI 2004 T5 1.9 TDI 2012 FIAT 500 ABARTH 1971 FIAT 500D |
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Baxter
Admin Group Scruff Daddy Joined: 29 May 04 Location: Huddersfield Status: Offline Points: 8060 |
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Deffo in the realms of product liability insurance if you ask me!
I appreciate that the column has been tested and deemed safe in the car it came from, but steering columns are potential killers in an accident, hence why they collapse inside theirselves, but without going and crashing a few then your never gunna know.
Dodgy ground if you ask me Tim.
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Tee3
Admin Group Coprophagous Cretin Joined: 06 Jun 04 Location: Huddersfield Status: Offline Points: 9763 |
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Fact is, my insurance company know about my springs. They know about the adaptors. they know about the wheels. They dont have issues with any of it. There is no reason why you should need an engineers report for a system from OE parts. Nobody is knocking this system, but there will be issues with the insurance if you tell them you cobbled a home brew assisted steering system to it that you bought off some bloke on the internet. Sourcing the parts yourself and putting it all together is one thing, but when you start marketing it as a kit, then you could be on dodgy ground if something does go wrong. Like I say, no-one is knocking the system, just pointing out that there could be issues. Better to be upfront about it from the outset isnt it? Edited by Tee3 - 15 Mar 09 at 22:22 |
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YOU CANT EDUCATE GAMMON http://www.tee3.co.uk/ |
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VW Nerd
Yardie Joined: 20 Jan 08 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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I hope that you only use std vw wheels on your bus's with std vw springs, and shun the thought of using wheel adaptors.
Total suicide! Lighten up guys, embrace the mod'ed T3. Be thankful that the communist state of England has not put a total stop to people modifying their vehicles just yet. I hope that those of you who fit vw power steering to a non power steering bus's get an engineers report, it might help you to sleep and night! Tim. |
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Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.
Tim Shettle www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk Bristol Tel/txt 07810 320 464 AFN TDI Panel Van |
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Tee3
Admin Group Coprophagous Cretin Joined: 06 Jun 04 Location: Huddersfield Status: Offline Points: 9763 |
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Thats the only thing that stopped me asking about this kit.
I'm sure any major non OE parts fitted to the steering system would raise some eyebrows at insurance time? Its a great Idea, but i'm waiting til I can afford OE bits. And mines a left hooker so there are lot more bits out there |
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YOU CANT EDUCATE GAMMON http://www.tee3.co.uk/ |
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Aidan
Vanorak Joined: 25 Sep 04 Location: Llanfyllin Status: Offline Points: 1081 |
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Tim
I hope you have good liability insurance cos in the event of an accident the non collapsible nature of the set up might be a problem, safer to use an electric pump and proper t3 ps rack and the standard column ands linkages imho.
Be interested what the insurance company thought of the mod, I appreciate that yours is mega modded but didn't they ask for an engineers report for this conversion ?
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Aidan Talbot, gearboxes for watercooled engines, 4, 5 speed and syncro front and rear rebuilt. 01691 648011, 07817 377938....www.aidantalbot.co.uk
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VW Nerd
Yardie Joined: 20 Jan 08 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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I will get a few kits up together, It will be on a first come, first serve basis! I guess half a dozen will be enough to get the ball rolling! Tim
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Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.
Tim Shettle www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk Bristol Tel/txt 07810 320 464 AFN TDI Panel Van |
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Aspo13
Yardie Joined: 01 Mar 09 Location: Chesterfield Status: Offline Points: 420 |
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So, can you put together the kit together to sell or not?
Please can I be at the front of the queue, it was my thread after all .
Judging by the interest its generated I think VW Nerd is going to be busy this year.
Please can you let us know.
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Drop in late but show up early
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niko
Vanorak Nice fella. Joined: 01 Jul 07 Location: Stroke On Tent Status: Offline Points: 2639 |
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same as the last post really....
do you plan to offer this as a ready to go kit. is it an easy DIY fit. have you any indication of a price.
I have seen a similar thing on some of the mini forums...so as you say more reality than concept.
I was toying with the idea of getting a LHD PS rack and all the bits so that my wife feels happier driving....is this a better, cheaper, easier alternative upgrade.
Cheers
Keith
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VW Nerd
Yardie Joined: 20 Jan 08 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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It is not the simple case of fitting parts straight from a donor car, there is some cut and shut needed with some careful fabrication of mounting brakes. Then there is the fitting of the vehicle road speed sensor, a part which I can supply!
Tim.
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Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.
Tim Shettle www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk Bristol Tel/txt 07810 320 464 AFN TDI Panel Van |
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ben50
Groupie Joined: 18 Dec 06 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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I'm very interested in this, especially for when I get my alloys on later this year.
Approx how much do the parts come to if I was going to fit myself? Are they the sort of bits I could easliy get from a scrapyard? Money is rather tight at the moment, and plenty of worthwhile things to spend it on before the van! |
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VW Nerd
Yardie Joined: 20 Jan 08 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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No longer a concept, but a reality!
What do you need to know? Tim
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Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.
Tim Shettle www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk Bristol Tel/txt 07810 320 464 AFN TDI Panel Van |
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niko
Vanorak Nice fella. Joined: 01 Jul 07 Location: Stroke On Tent Status: Offline Points: 2639 |
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this looks like the answer to many peoples prayers....seems simple enough concept.
more details
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Aspo13
Yardie Joined: 01 Mar 09 Location: Chesterfield Status: Offline Points: 420 |
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I think you'd better count me in on a kit. Could you put one together and post it up north to me?
My uncle is a mechanic so as long as he has an idea of whats involved we can fit it ourselves.
What would the cost be for all the bits in kit form if your willing to do it this way?
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Drop in late but show up early
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TransPorscher
Vanorak Joined: 21 Dec 04 Location: South West UK Status: Offline Points: 1350 |
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I've driven one of Tim's buses with this system on and it's actually better for parking than the original T3 PAS. Therefore I'm weighing in all my RHD power racks!!!
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Charlie
Small Moves Big Grooves! WeFunkRadio.com |
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lister
Groupie Joined: 04 Apr 08 Location: Lincoln Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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I need this in my bus, so the dragon can drive and i get to relax hehehe
Keep us updated on parts and i'll buy some as soon as they are in.
Rob
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