egr block yes or no ? |
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The Loon
Yardie Joined: 06 Feb 08 Location: Skid Row Status: Offline Points: 912 |
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Cheers Simon
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Justified Ancient of Mu Mu.
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touche
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 18 Feb 09 Location: N. Yorks Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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i think the engine code is on a label under the dash somewhere, its also duplicated on a sheet in the owners manual/pdi docs.
AXC is 1.9 85bhp hth |
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VWmatT28
Groupie Joined: 06 Nov 08 Location: Swansea Status: Offline Points: 174 |
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Just fitted the EGR delete plate the van does feel a little smoother to drive but has no real performance gains on my 85, it was a little bit of trouble to fit but its on now and there it'll stay.
Matt
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smidsy
Yardie Joined: 31 Mar 08 Status: Offline Points: 392 |
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i can confirm that Mr Baxter's kit fits the 85ps T5, had one on mine for a while now.
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sti 360
Groupie Joined: 16 Dec 08 Location: bath Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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by fitting a blanking plate does is throw a ecu light in the cabin,
also by blanking off the pipe that does not stop the valve flap from moving so how does the engine get its air when the flap is in the position to get air from the exhaust or have i got this wrong umm matt |
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CLONKY
Yardie Joined: 23 Jan 06 Status: Offline Points: 828 |
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My understanding is that the valve flap serves a different purpose. The exhaust gasses require no assistance to join the airflow, and the valve flap stays fully open at all times when running.
The valve flap only operates when the engine is turned off, cutting the air supply. The effect of this is that the engine 'dies' in a smoother manner than it otherwise would..
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zedzedeleven
Vanorak Joined: 05 Jan 06 Location: west cumbria Status: Offline Points: 1169 |
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I`m a bit confused now. If you read touche`s post on page one he makes reference to stopping the egr by either blocking the vac pipe or doing an egr delete. Presumably both of these methods work by disabling the valve. The plate works in another way does it? by physically blocking the pipe from the exhaust ? The valve must be fail safe close then , so the neatest solution would be egr delete?
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1.9 85ps swb 2004 in friesan green.
bring me sunshine. |
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Baxter
Admin Group Scruff Daddy Joined: 29 May 04 Location: Huddersfield Status: Offline Points: 8060 |
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Fitting a plate won't put the light on.
The ECU has no way of knowing that the flow of exhaust gas into the inlet has been stemmed.
All the plate does is stop the flow of axhaust gas, nothing else.
You could unplug the solenoid valve that operates, it, that would be picked up by the ECU as a open circuit, and because it's an emmisions related device your van would go into limp home mode.
Similarly, if you unplug the vacuum line that actuates the EGR valve, that would be picked up and the same scenario, light on and limp home.
Easiest, best, cheapest way of not having problems and not clogging your internals with stick black 'orrible stuff is to fit the plate.
It won't give any performance gains, it's just better for your engine.
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Onefut
Yardie I like pink Joined: 14 Jan 08 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 994 |
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wont fit mine
mines the 174 AXE motor id still like to blank it off anyon got a pic of the hose? |
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God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick! 05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB |
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Baxter
Admin Group Scruff Daddy Joined: 29 May 04 Location: Huddersfield Status: Offline Points: 8060 |
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As it happens, I gave one to a local to try the other day, he has an AXE engine.
Anyway, the part number of the gasket is different but seemingly the dimensions of the gasket are the same and he said it fits a treat.
On the unexpected side he did say he had a marked improvement in throttle reponce and performance.
On that assumption, I'm goint to stick my neck out and revoke what I said earlier going on info from ETKA and say that chances are that the kit will fit everything.
If it doesn't, send it back and I'll credit you.
Simon.
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touche
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 18 Feb 09 Location: N. Yorks Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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In theory the ecu SHOULD see the egr open by seeing a drop in the maf readings, this is generally how it monitors egr operation which it needs to do, EGR = Less fuel required due to the egr flow being oxygen depleted. Deleting EGR will leave the fueling slightly lean when egr should normally be on, the way i see it is that this shouldnt be a problem as egr can only operate when boost is less than exhaust pressure, maybe 6psi?? I believe you can tweak the system with Vagcom to reduce egr rate, this helps to correct the minor underfuel.
I question the systems capability. My egr pipe is blocked and i have no light on. I suspect that the ecu calculates fueling mainly from boost readings. I am relying on the seal of the egr poppet valve (which shouldnt be an issue) rather than a blanking plate but when I get a remap I will fit a blanking plate or an allard egr delete. A remap is the way to go to fully delete egr and correct the fueling. |
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Baxter
Admin Group Scruff Daddy Joined: 29 May 04 Location: Huddersfield Status: Offline Points: 8060 |
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You can't have a lean mixture on a Diesel.
Less fuel per volume of charge air just results in a engine that turns slower.
Diesels are throttled by fuel.
ECU calculates fuel by MAF and throttle position, and to a lesser extent ambient temp, engine temp etc, all sensor readings will have an effect of fuelling, thats why they are there.
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Delfhill
Yardie Joined: 26 Feb 07 Location: West Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 252 |
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Just fitted one of Mr Baxter's blanking plates to my 2.5 AXD engine and it fits perfectly. Not tried it yet, but off to Wales tomorrow to paddle the Wye, so will try it out then.
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Onefut
Yardie I like pink Joined: 14 Jan 08 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 994 |
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where is the egr
had a look yesterday but couldnt see anythin i recognise as an egr |
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God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick! 05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB |
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touche
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 18 Feb 09 Location: N. Yorks Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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at idle, i would agree. But the same cannot apply under load/when driving, the ecu fuels according to metered airflow into the engine, therefore fueling can be rich or lean at any point determined by how much fuel the ecu injects to match determined airflow. Obviously diesels are less fussy about the air fuel ratio but there are still optimum ratios for performance and for economy. It would be good to know how the ecu determines fueling for egr operation, i.e. does it reduce fuel: A) when it requests egr, or B) only when it sees the requested egr drop the maf reading. for us egr deleter's, hopefully the latter. All the above assuming no oxygen sensor. I wonder if some egr deletes put the eml on because the vehicle has an o2 sensor and can measure fuel/air ratio more accurately. |
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Delfhill
Yardie Joined: 26 Feb 07 Location: West Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 252 |
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I've now done several hundred miles with the EGR blocked off and although I can't say whether the fuel consumption has altered as I've had a canoe and roof box on the top, it has driven much more smoothly. Before blocking the EGR off, the van has always hesitated and "chuff chuff chuffed" when lifting off the accelerator at lowish revs and after gentle acceleration. The van has always done that since new and the dealer said there was nothing wrong, but it was irritating. All that has now gone, it seems much smoother so I'm very pleased for that reason alone.
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gregozedobe
Vanorak Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266 |
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Diesels run on variable air fuel ratios, and use the amount of fuel being injected to control power : less fuel (leaner) = less power, more fuel (richer) = more power (up to a point, then it will damage the diesel engine).
Diesels work very well indeed on lean mixtures that would quickly kill a petrol engine, and the rich mixtures that stop a hard working petrol engine from overheating would kill a diesel.
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oddboy
Yardie Joined: 03 May 08 Location: norfolk Status: Offline Points: 762 |
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would i benifit egr delete on a 174 DPF which is remapped ?
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gone to the darkside
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CLONKY
Yardie Joined: 23 Jan 06 Status: Offline Points: 828 |
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Spot on.This cropped up some weeks ago, from a tuning company too, who should know better. A diesel, unlike a petrol engine does not have a throttle flap to control the incoming airflow. At all times there is an unrestricted supply of air to the engine (the 'apparent' throttle flap on a T5 is for another purpose) as Greg says, the more fuel that goes in, the more power (and heat) is produced.
A diesel engine overfuelling or running rich can damage the engine, usually due to the excessive heat developed, whereas the opposite is the case with a petrol engine, a lean mixture causes the heat, and damage.
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touche
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 18 Feb 09 Location: N. Yorks Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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oh, jesus, here we go again...........
I am not sure why I need to do some research, and I fail to see how I am quite wrong??? To state that diesels do not have an ideal afr and cannot run rich or lean because 'they have no throttle plate' is total b*ll*cks and a statement I have heard a few times yet never, ever, ever, ever heard a good explanation as to why??? I am quite familiar with the differences between petrol and diesel, nasp and forced induction. I also understand manifold absolute pressure and what a throttle plate does. How can you both suggest to me that a diesel cannot run rich or lean against a target air/fuel ratio and then start to discuss what happens to a diesel when it is run rich or lean??? did I mention stocihiometry? or should we not discuss that one until I know what I am on about? |
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