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Flipped Gearbox Driveshaft Flanges.

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SplitBusVanatic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SplitBusVanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Flipped Gearbox Driveshaft Flanges.
    Posted: 18 Jun 14 at 15:42
With the tdi Passat/Audi Gearbox having a completely different bolt pattern.
Passat being 130mm and the Bus inner cv's being 100mm.
Square peg round hole situation.
There are a few options.

You can buy inner early T4 Cv's which have a boot pattern of 108mm.
These cvs fit straight onto your bus driveshafts.
You then need to get your hands on a 1.8t gearbox from a Passat or Audi.
These gearboxes have the same output flange as the tdi. ie. push in.
They are the same except for the fact that they have a bolt pattern of 108mm.
Your problems end here.

The second option is one I am investigating at the moment.
A little bird told me that the 1.6 petrol Passat/Audi had 100mm output flanges.
They are also push in. ie not held in with a Central Allen headed bolt.
I managed to get a 1.6petrol gearbox and pull the flanges from it.
They are 100mm. However they have a narrower inner shaft.
See below.
Tdi output flange with 130mm bolt pattern on the right.
A '99 Passat 1.6 petrol gearbox output flange on the left. 100mm.


Rumour has it that there are two types of 100mm flange fitted to these boxes in the 1.6 petrol.
One with a thin shaft as pictured. The other with a thicker shaft, same as tdi.

There are two reasons for this post.
To provide an OEM solution. Readily available. Adaptors are of course available.   
      I'd like to see if we can put the 100mm option to bed.
      Maybe the 100mm flanges with a thick inner shaft do not exist.
I'd like to ask anyone with a scrapped 1.6litre Petrol Audi or Passat gearbox to pull the flanges and simply measure the inner shaft. Provided the flange has a bolt pattern of 100mm.
      Also does anyone have a 1.8 non turbo petrol Passat or Audi gearbox that we can see what size the inner shaft is.


Edited by SplitBusVanatic - 18 Jun 14 at 16:00
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VW Nerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 14 at 22:53
Today I took stock of a Porsche boxster gearbox which came with similar out put flanges to the 1600 petrol gear box output flanges. The Porsche flanges have the same PCD as the van but are a few mm bigger in the diameter. I've not pulled the shaft to see if the inner spline is the same as the 1600 petrol box or the larger type used on the TDI gearbox.
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SplitBusVanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 09:41
Pull them out and take a pic Tim.
This thread has tumbleweed rolling through it.
Cheers.

When you say the pcd is same but hole diameter is different.
Would it mean the bus cvs would not bolt to them. ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 09:51
The bus CV 100mm rattles about in the recess for the joint. The Porsche CV must be slightly bigger. I'll measure up over the next couple of days.
Also you don't say what drive shafts you want to run on the narrower Audi box.

Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
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Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SplitBusVanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 10:22
Well. My drive shafts are modified t3 items.
Initially when I had the 1.6d installed. I had to shorten the standard t3 shafts.
With the Audi box being slightly narrower and with the high angle of gearbox.
The shafts will need modifying again. I had crudely cut and welded these shafts.
My aim then was when I had the correct length of shaft ascertained.
I would get a company to make me two shafts.


Sorry if this sounds thick.
The Porsche flange has a pcd of 100mm same as a bus but has a bigger cv. ?
Are the Porsche flanges 108 pcd perhaps. ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 14:00
The OD of the bus CV's are 100 not sure off hand what the bolt pcd is.
The Porsche Flange will take a 102mm OD CV and has the same bolt PCD as the bus CV. All tried and tested.
The Audi 1.6 petrol box has a 100mm OD recess for the 100mm CV and not the 102mm recess as per the Porsche.
Not sure why you need to cut and weld shafts when I make and sell the drive shaft adaptor / spacers to suit the narrower Audi TDI box with the larger output flanges that come as std on the best suited gearbox for a TDI conversion into a T3. These also allow the use of the std unmodified bus shaft and CV set up.
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 17:28
Originally posted by VW Nerd VW Nerd wrote:

Not sure why you need to cut and weld shafts when I make and sell the drive shaft adaptor / spacers 

prob because he cant afford your kit Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SplitBusVanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 17:57
Thanks Rowlsey.
My van is not a T3. So the shaft shortening was necessary at the time.
These are temporary and were to be replaced by professionally made and balanced items.
My motivation for looking for an output flange was to bypass the need for adapters.
This may not prove doable now though.
I'll be spending quite a bit less than 150 pounds for a pair of adapters if I do elect to go this route.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SplitBusVanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 18:00
The 1.6 petrol flanges are pictured above.
They have a much thinner inner shaft. ie. will not fit tdi box.
Is the Porsche inner shaft as thick as the tdi one. ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3Panel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 22:03
have you looked on vagcat to see if the parts you are looking for are shown on there? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willowreilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 23:55
I bought tims adapter kit for the driveshafts. £150 well spent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 14 at 10:12
Originally posted by T3Panel T3Panel wrote:

have you looked on vagcat to see if the parts you are looking for are shown on there? 


I had a quick look and there does appear to be a couple of part numbers for the 100mm output flanges.
012 409 343 E and 012 409 343 P
This may be worth investigating further as both these part numbers are listed for the DVP and DWG code boxes in 2002 which looks like a crossover year.
Earlier boxes used the E suffix part and later the P suffix part. That could be down to the later boxes using the same larger spline sun gear in the diff to standardise parts.



Edited by danstervan - 13 Jul 14 at 10:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SplitBusVanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 14 at 11:25
Possible good news then.
So late 1.6l petrol Passat is needed to see if the inner spline is akin to tdi thinness.
I already pulled a '99 gearbox to see the flanges had smaller inner splines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northantscarl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 17 at 15:38
jumping on the back of this thread - I have a 6 speed audi 01e and it has 108 ish pcd out put flanges - ive had some adaptors made that are 114 ( his error not mine) - does anyone know where I can source a pair of these 114mm pcd 6 bolt flanges from ? the 108 are push in not screwed ( which is what I am atm )
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Germanplates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 17 at 20:40
Do t4's have 108mm cv's. ?
Would they fit your drive shafts ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northantscarl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 17 at 21:33
No my output flanges are already 108mm the adaptors were 114mm - no matter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fufflenarnia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 17 at 22:43
You can buy 108 mm cvs that fit onto t3 drive shafts, no adaptors needed. You need early t4 ones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northantscarl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 17 at 08:48
Yer sorry not as easy as that - these are for a lotus Europa that has ford cv joints / flange adaptors at 114mm and bespoke length shafts ( rated at300bhp ) thanks for the advice though ! New adaptors on order !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Shoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 17 at 14:16
Originally posted by fufflenarnia fufflenarnia wrote:

You can buy 108 mm cvs that fit onto t3 drive shafts, no adaptors needed. You need early t4 ones


Would you not still have the problem of the gearbox being narrower than the original and therefore the driveshafts too short?
I'm using a Boxster gearbox that has the same PCD as the the T3 driveshafts but I'm still having some spacers made up to allow for the difference in width.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fufflenarnia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 17 at 14:27
Yes, you need to put spacers in, 6mm each side, I had some water jetted and put them on the hub side.
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