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Exhaust manifold and turbo removal

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Happy Yellow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Exhaust manifold and turbo removal
    Posted: 11 Jun 10 at 09:33
It's time for me to remove and repair my blowing exhaust manifold, and I would like to check the turbo out at the same time - it switches to safety mode, or something, and needs rebooting - ignition off/on - in order to get full power again - this is worse after a fairly inactive winter, but happens occasionally even after I've been at full-bore for extended periods on German Autobahns.
 
I've checked the diagram on Elsawin, but can't make out if the exhaust manifold can be removed without disturbing the turbo - I can see the fresh-air-in and fresh-air-out ducting, and also the exhaust connection, but can't see how the exhaust gas gets into the turbo.
 
Do I need to remove the turbo?  Can I free it up without removing it?
 
Can anyone give advice regarding manifold and/or turbo removal?
 
Thanks and regards,
 
Rupert
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquidfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 10 at 13:16
I can't really offer any advice but would really appreciate a write up of how it is done as I need to do this myself. Make sure you get a manifold gasket. Not getting safe mode from the exhaust manifold alone so would guess you have bigger problems. I am fairly sure you need to drop the exhaust and then the manifold should come straight off (once you have ripped your hand apart undoing the nuts)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 09:07
Had a go at the weekend, but the turbo has to come off in order to remove the exhaust manifold! Angry
 
The exhaust manifold has failed twice on the right-hand pot (left-hand when looking from the front).  It's cracked on a weld close to the block.  And the flange has deformed.  The exhaust manifold is not a quality item - shame on you VW!
 
Access to the turbo mountings is not great, especially without a pit or ramp.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Happy Yellow - 14 Jun 10 at 09:12
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mistadave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mistadave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 20:53
I had an advisory on this on my recent mot - "minor exhaust gas leak from exhaust (manifold area)"

is there a new or better one to fit. or is it best to get it welded back up better than it was before? Any idea on the price and rough cost to get the job done by a garage?

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquidfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 22:29
yeah what metal is it (i.e. what welder do I need to find?) was told that it wasn't cast iron.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 14:58

The manifold looks as if it's made of stainless steel - I can't be sure. It is fabricated, and has not gone rusty; just darkish brown.  I'll check to see if it's magnetic tonight.

I checked at my VW dealer this morning.  They said that they have tried welding them in the past, but it has not been successful.  But they would say that wouldn't they!
 
The manifold is horribly expensive (about £300) but VW only state 2.20 hours to replace it - despite the fact that the difficult-to-get-to turbo has to come off.  Plus they give a 2-year guarantee if they do the work.
 
I asked if the manifold had been updated since mine (2005) and they said, according to the part number, it looks as if it has not been.
 
I'm going to get my dealer to do the work.  I'll get the old manifold back, have it welded and keep ready for next time!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 15:23
Originally posted by Happy Yellow Happy Yellow wrote:

The manifold looks as if it's made of stainless steel - I can't be sure. It is fabricated, and has not gone rusty; just darkish brown.  I'll check to see if it's magnetic tonight.

Beware, some stainless steel alloys are magnetic so testing in this way can be unreliable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 08:25
Correct fantasam - I didn't mean that if it was magnetic; it would not be s/s, rather if it was non-magnetic it would more or less confirm that it was s/s.
 
Anyway, the manifold is magnetic.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mistadave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 09:26
I thought that the shiny "stainless steel" looking bit was just a cover or a heat shield, and that the actual manifold was inside that. When i had a look before for any damage to the manifold it seemed that it was just a thin case - too thin and lacking any signs of extreme heat to be the actual manifold?

Or have you already removed this to inspect the manifold properly?

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 10:11
There is a bright s/s cover over the manifold - I was not referring to this - it cannot be removed with the manifold in situ. 
 
I found my actual manifold to be leaking at two points very close to the engine block on the L/H side facing the engine (air-box end).  There may be other leaks that the thin s/s cladding could be concealing.  There was quite a bit of soot visible once I'd removed the air-box - it's been leaking for over a year (some 30k miles).
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mistadave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 22:08
Ah i see, I haven't seen any obvious black marks around mine, but i will have a closer look tomorrow.

I know that some people who thought they had a leaky manifold actually just had a leaky gasket on it which is obviously far cheaper to replace.

Can you really notice yours when you are driving? if it wasn't for the MOT advisory i wouldn't have know that there was a problem with mine. Still, i might just put my warranty direct policy to the test and try and get this sorted out - don't want to be wasting any precious power!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brownster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 07:14

Be careful with the warranty direct action. Had my water pump replaced with them, then found out that the policy that I took out didn’t cover the full cost for dealer labour. Ended up being approx £100 out of pocket. Total waste of money. Won’t be renewing my membership that’s for sure!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mistadave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 07:51
Yeh they offer a few different levels of cover and the max labour rate per hour changes with each one. I didn't get high enough cover for taking it to a dealer but i would never do that anyway, I've got enough to pay for my local decent indy's rates though so might give it a go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 09:01
Originally posted by mistadave mistadave wrote:

Ah i see, I haven't seen any obvious black marks around mine, but i will have a closer look tomorrow.

I know that some people who thought they had a leaky manifold actually just had a leaky gasket on it which is obviously far cheaper to replace.

Can you really notice yours when you are driving? if it wasn't for the MOT advisory i wouldn't have know that there was a problem with mine. Still, i might just put my warranty direct policy to the test and try and get this sorted out - don't want to be wasting any precious power!
 
Once I'd removed the air-box the shoot was obvious - there is quite a lot of it.
 
It's difficult to know if the gasket has failed or not - it looks as if something has distorted on the down-stream side of the flange.  I'll know when I get the manifold back on 4th July.  However, there is also a crack at the weld near the flange.  If you think that your gasket has failed, you could try slackening and re-torquing the flange bolts (I know it's not correct, but it can work - only undo half a turn and then re-torque to 25 Nm).
 
Yes, I do notice the leak when driving.  I keep my van in a garage, and by the time I've reversed out, exhaust gas can be smelt inside the van, as there is no draft to carry it away.  My wife noticed it before me.  She insisted that it was because I'd removed the pollen filter (as the smell started at about the same time I did that), but I don't think a filter can filter out smell.
 
Also, when accelerating, I can hear the gas escaping just before the turbo cuts in.  It almost sounds like a metallic ticking.  I remember the sound from the leaking manifold of my 5-cylinder Passat back in 1988!  It's a lot more noticeable when the engine's cold.  I expect expansion helps to close the gaps.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 22:07
Originally posted by Happy Yellow Happy Yellow wrote:

 
Also, when accelerating, I can hear the gas escaping just before the turbo cuts in.  It almost sounds like a metallic ticking.  I remember the sound from the leaking manifold of my 5-cylinder Passat back in 1988!  It's a lot more noticeable when the engine's cold.  I expect expansion helps to close the gaps.
 
 
Thats interesting, I have noticed a "metallic ticking" noise on my van, moreso when cold
 
What RPM do you notice this ticking at?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mistadave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 22:44
I've just taken the air box out as you suggested and found the leak in mine too - same place coming from the end port.

I had a closer look and managed to find the crack, and also another one developing at the opposite end of the manifold. Also looks like its too rusty to be stainless?

Here are some pics:
the black patch from where it has been leaking

the crack which it is leaking from

the crack appearing at the other end of the manifold



I've just emailed MIJ who did my exhaust and decat to see what they would charge for a stainless manifold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 09:37
Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

Originally posted by Happy Yellow Happy Yellow wrote:

 
Also, when accelerating, I can hear the gas escaping just before the turbo cuts in.  It almost sounds like a metallic ticking.  I remember the sound from the leaking manifold of my 5-cylinder Passat back in 1988!  It's a lot more noticeable when the engine's cold.  I expect expansion helps to close the gaps.
 
 
Thats interesting, I have noticed a "metallic ticking" noise on my van, moreso when cold
 
What RPM do you notice this ticking at?
 
 
 
 
Sorry, I can't say, as I never look at my rev-counter.  But it happens fairly early on, and under normal acceleration.  Maybe open your window to hear more easily.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 09:48
mistadave: great photos!
 
I have a crack in the manifold just as you have as shown in your last photo, but on my air-box end port.
 
The leak in your second photo; I have not got.  Mine was leaking at the flange, between the rusty part and the bright part, but on the same side as yours.
 
Both my leaks are at the air-box port.
 
And yes, the manifold is far too rusty to be s/s - mine is much less so.  Did you mean that you were going to ask MIJ to make you a s/s manifold?  I would have thought it would be too difficult - it's a complicated thing and has to match up with the turbo etc.
 
Good Luck.


Edited by Happy Yellow - 18 Jun 10 at 10:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mistadave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 13:01
GOOD NEWS!!!

MIJ are going to develop one in august as they have had a few people ask them for one, ive just put my name down for one. It will cost about £350 for a full stainless t-304 manifold and if their exhausts are anything to go by it will be top quality and have a lifetime guarantee.

I'm sure mine will be fine until then so I'm going to sit tight and hope for the best. Maybe I can use exhaust tape as a temporary fix?

Also you mention the metalic ticking noise, but I always thought that it was the injectors, and you hear it more when cold because they are injecting more fuel. I notice it most just before the turbo kicks in (and drowns out the noise!). I'll maybe try the exhaust tape fix and see if it stops the noise.

Cheers

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquidfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 13:04
any chance that they would do a group discount if several people were to buy them? I might be interested too.
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