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EU...in or out...

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donecan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 12:22
Well said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Van man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 13:30
Personally, hard facts would be nice, but that won't happen as no one knows the outcome. I think once the votes are counted we will be leaving, right or wrong everyone seems to think this will stop the immigration of people into the U.K and the NHS will have loads of funds and shifty Cameron and the health MP Mike ? Hunt will resign.
Interesting article aside I read was that a lot of U.K employment agencies advertise abroad for staff more than here.To guarantee a workforce that will turn up and work etc. I had a friend that used to work 12hr shifts on a food production line, end of his 3 month review he was classed as unhelpful , well you wont be on a factory floor when everyone speaks a foreign language bar you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 22:09
As I expected to see here on this site there is some reasonable discussion. Guessed that was going to be the case what with folk travelling in Europe with their vans and actually considering the various implications of the result.

At last the English get a chance to see the bullshit media in full effect. Endlessly spewing out hyperbolic headlines. "The pound will crash / rise", "House prices will fall / rise, (delete as appropriate to pander to a particular demographic of audience), "Immigration blah blah blah".

Us real northerners have put up with this crud for years, particularly during the recent campaign on the question of whether Scotland should be an independent country. The Better Together lot even called their campaign "project fear", which included such classics as threatening old folks that they'd lose their pensioners if they voted yes, the oil will run out, etc etc.

It's sad and utterly predictable watching the same tactics being used to scare or unsettle the electorate regarding the EU referendum.
The bases trying to retain power are already covered with Pig Fooker and Coke Head for stay, and BoJo and various others for out.
It's not as if any one of those millionaires gives two fecks about losing their jobs and its meagre wage. They are just placemen groomed to front the cause. Either way the result goes they'll have done their service and reap the rewards accordingly.

This whole EU vote is only happening because the Conservatives are in power. All the polls prior to GE15 said that was never going to happen, but it's not everyone that has the cash to run polls and release specific data and therefore influence the vote...
It turns out the Conservatives are currently being investigated by 8 different police forces for electoral fraud. This could ultimately mean jail time for the guilty as they broke some rules relating to regional / national expenditure during the GE campaigning. That could mean their governance is not legitimate.
Yet that barely makes the headline news. But there's headlines on a couple of Scottish MPs getting laid, which last I heard was a legal activity, but alas you'll find no such in-depth critical analysis or dogged journalistic endeavours to uncover or hold individuals to account on the decades of paedophilia carried out by politicians and BBC staff.
Just suck it up suckas and continue to pay your TV licence fee to be lied to or mislead by organisations that harboured paedophiles for years.

Also remember that nearly all the newspapers are owned by just half a dozen ultra rich non domiciled tax exiles, and the companies themselves are generally registered offshore or through some other tax dodging system. With those credentials do you really think the editorial line they take is about providing the common man in the street real news. Or is it just a load of divisive pish they push to serve their masters allowing them to continue to divide and rule over the distracted and confused plebs squabbling amongst themselves over such things as their religions or lack of one, skin colours, ethnicity, or even football teams.

You can only vote based on your own knowledge or perception of reality, but it's hardly a fair democratic or informed decision making process when the electorate are continually force fed dubious information which is often contradictory.
Either way if it all gets too much for you remember that you still have the right to revolt, well at least for the time being...

NSFW




Edited by danstervan - 26 May 16 at 22:17
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donecan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 16 at 08:40
Read this earlier, made me chuckle, plus it makes some good points...

(Tried to copy n' paste the whole lot onto here but it had a mare and wouldn't let me)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 16 at 10:33
Personally I haven't read a conclusive report to justify either way........That I'm taking is that it is not clear cut and is a total matter of opinion to what suits the individual best......
 
Immigrants!.......I believe a lot of people think that been in the EU is why they come to this country and voting out will stop them coming in........don't really think this is the case and people that vote out will be in for a huge shock.....
 
To be honest if the immigrant issue is resolved then the vote in/out would be a totally different call to many people, I believe it is just been used by those wanting out to win over the masses but in reality people will still flock to the UK because we let them in and support them.
 
My Vote......undecided still at the moment....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Hamnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 16 at 20:15
Originally posted by Aidan Aidan wrote:

as I see it the UK economy is floated on the financial services sector which skims 1/2% off the world wide economy every day which in turn allows the UK govt to borrow over a £5 per head of population per day to prop it all up despite trying to reduce expenditure, and we have to defend that by having a massive arms industry anda  nuclear deterrent and then sell weapons around the world leading to war and population displacement and then complain that people from elsewhere want to come and live here, the land of 5% national unemployment and millions working in call centres cold calling and selling shite whilst we waste 1% of GDP on advertising mostly harmful cheap foodstuffs to the gullible while complaining that the NHS can't cope with the consequences and make us all live forever, whilst we don't train and retain enough teachers, doctors and nurses ourselves despite having more people going to university and disparity between the haves and have nots increasing; I reckon if the rest of europe could vote they'd vote us out, Britain you are the weakest link

staying in is probably best for the rest of the planet, and most likely to lead to a better balanced europe and world ;go our own way and we will be the 51st state and go the way of all the great civilisations in history

the Eu costs us only 0.5% of GDP, ie half of what we spend on advertising shite


shame I can't say this on the other place because eventually someone will get arsey and or apply Godwin's rule

Hear, hear!!
I couldn't have put it better.Thumbs Up




Edited by Tim Hamnett - 27 May 16 at 20:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3Panel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 16 at 21:33
well I need it over and done with and an 'In' vote so people get their bloody houses on the market so I can find somewhere to move to!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 16 at 13:08
And right on que, just before the purdah period kicks in they roll out the old your pension will drop warning gag...

That'll scare the pensioners and influence their vote. Especially as so many don't use the internet so are unable to find out their pension was utter crap in the first place!

The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world

The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union

The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world

The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU

The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU

The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU's 28 countries

The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU

The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe

The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe

The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe.

The UK is the 4th highest country of wealth inequality in the entire planet


To update the Conservative electoral fraud issue I mentioned previously, I see it is now 19 police forces investigating 28 MPs.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 16 at 14:38
So what does that prove.
Being in has done very little for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 16 at 17:02
It's done a huge amount. Clean water... Workers rights... Clean air the work the EU has done in protecting the environment and health and safety and work is not to be ignored.

I agree that there's serious issues with the EU but then it's a large complex bureaucracy.

Bit to say it's 'done nothing for us' is inaccurate. It's has many far reaching implications on trade, banking, social security, defence and environmental issues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 16 at 19:10
I think it's a sighn of the times that there has been so much improvements. All the scandinavian countries and others have improved to a greater degree in or out of the EU.
It is a huge bearacratic nightmare that costs a fortune.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 16 at 22:05
Originally posted by ob1 ob1 wrote:

It's done a huge amount. Clean water... Workers rights... Clean air the work the EU has done in protecting the environment and health and safety and work is not to be ignored.

I agree that there's serious issues with the EU but then it's a large complex bureaucracy.

Bit to say it's 'done nothing for us' is inaccurate. It's has many far reaching implications on trade, banking, social security, defence and environmental issues.



Bit like the Romans then. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 16 at 10:49
In or out.

For in NI has had hand outs but no where near as much as Southern Ireland where they built roads to no where. I do work for some of our politicians and it's not a gravy train but a gold train. The ability to import and export in Europe is nice. European free trade, working time directive, human rights (if it was applied correctly) are a benefit.

Down side, cost, no cuts or austratuary in the parliament or process, no job cuts there? We can't kick out undesirables, we signed up to a common market not common laws, unelected officials, imposed standards which we have no input to, money squandered on two parliaments traipsing back and forth, a currency system under extreme duress Euro, countries who want the benefits but don't collect taxes, others preach the rules but ignore the them themselves France, Itlay, Greece. No jurnoulaist has ever gone round Europe to see what each country offers the asylum seeker? Why do we pay child benefit for children not in the UK? The U.K. has always helped the oppressed but when the UK promise aid they pay, allot of the rest of Europe offer but don't stump up the cash.

We are in and out of houses every day and we see older people who have worked all there lives and paid who now struggle to survive but economic migrants blow in, want free health, schooling, housing. My niece grew up with my sister in law with two sons, one daughter and husband in a two bedroom house whilst she and husband worked. When she needed to move out asked the council for somewhere, anywhere was told it might take 10 years on the list but one bedroom flats in the same street where being handed out 2-3 times a month to new arrivals from inside Europe and outside.

We send economic aid to others in Europe and to Indian and Pakistan but our own health service is in melt down. We have outsiders come in to take ill to get surgery and frig off, the health service needs to ask for credit card before surgery like they do in Europe. You can't believe any politician they are professional liars,Blair (wmd), Major (affair), Corbin(supports terrorist), Cameron(will control borders).
I think Boris accurate in that someone in 39-45 had the same idea in Germany albeit by suits and back room deals as opposed to bullets and bombs.

Spain and Portgural don't follow fishery policies but Europe does dam all, out blast the fuckers out of the water and impound like Austraila does. The ozzies have the right idea and for those half baked yanks demand they now must buy a visa to enter the UK.

Norway, Denmark, Sweeden, Switerland economies have not died by being out of Europe?

All the ones saying stay are from the top 20% of wealth so the problems Europe brings they can afford it, no housing probs etc.

That's my views no doubt won't please everyone but hey we are meant to be a democercery with free speech?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 16 at 21:58
I have real concerns that leaving the EU may cost us in jobs and prosperity in the future, but looking at the current way the EU is being run, and the direction it is taking, I've just voted out.

For me better we try and determine our own future. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 16 at 07:08
Look at Ireland they got out and rejoined if it all goes tits up!

I love Mr Cameron who says immigration can be controlled inside the EU, wtf has he been doing the last five years then? Is he only now going to start and control immigration but hasn't bothered for the last five years? If he was an employee he'd been fired!

We had toady over here yesterday, as popular as a plague carrier, George.

Doom doom, but never said dam all what the EU does for us? What we pay in and then get out?

In the heating sector last year we got shafted with ERP, 15% increase on boilers 2% efficiency gain whoooo! Look at our friends VW and vehicle testing. The figures were as straight as MP expenses, EU didn't find the problem as it wasn't in the pig trough to notice. Mirror, seats removed, skinny wheels, slip stream a van ahead to cook the books all to EU standards.

We have a secure mental unit here for 8 adults, 5 are our European friends we can't send home and one yank as he cant afford treatment in good old USA and 2 places for locals?

Locals can't get kids into local schools here as our European friends claim tax credits/benefits so get a pick of primary school ahead of locals who were born and bred here.

Others leave kids back home with grand parents and ship back family allowance which supports grand parents and kids.

What other EU country would allow u to do that!?

There will be downsides yes but some small degree of common sense needs applied some the EU seems to lack totally!

The EU is the slowest growing contenant in the world excluding antartica.

We have a large number of EU Criminals here we can't ship home, human rights! Tax payer funded her majesty hotel!

We need to vet these ones arriving and if a blotted record return to sender!

It's the bankers that are shitting themselves and all the white collar cushy job suits supported in EU quango schemes.

I love our one border cutter in the channel trying to pick out people smugglers among the shipping traffic, no chance.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 16 at 07:22
If we stay in the EU we can't change our vat rate.

The 5% on heating controls, insulation energy efficiency EU told us we weren't allowed to do that. Or 0% on refurbing derelict housing to provide social housing.

Scrap one EU parliament, 25% in staffing, 35% cut in Mep's 50% cut in there expenses then I would consider they would be better inline with were the average European has felt in the down turn.

Bloated money consuming monster for little benefit with no accountability to anyone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 16 at 20:01
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

So what does that prove.
Being in has done very little for us.


I didn't post the info to prove anything, merely to highlight and compare some of the differences with other countries in the EU.

Make of it what you will but you appear by your response to suggest the EU has done nothing for us. It couldn't possibly be down to the UK government both past and present making an absolute clusterfeck of our rich and diverse resources whilst other countries have aspired to try and progress and better themselves.

Germany working towards being able to power itself by renewable energy. Note that Germany has a large population with high energy demands and is a land locked country so no offshore wind or tidal / wave generation, it's also fairly flat so limited hydro potential.
Portugal just managed 4 consecutive days on renewables.

Meanwhile our current Conservative UK government pulls renewable subsidies to stifle the development of the industry and commits to Chinese built nuclear power and fracking y o r k shire.
There's a reason we call them toxic tories in Scotland... Dead


I see there are now 20 Police forces investigating 30 Conservative MPs for electoral fraud.

Edit: And I see Labour have just voted with the Conservatives to pass the IP Bill.
C'mon tae fook English citizens, wakey wakey, there's 55 million of you and you can't put together a decent political party to represent you and protect your rights.






Edited by danstervan - 07 Jun 16 at 20:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aidan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 16 at 08:35
Originally posted by danstervan danstervan wrote:


C'mon tae fook English citizens, wakey wakey, there's 55 million of you and you can't put together a decent political party to represent you and protect your rights.


And as for the Welsh, only 5 million and they still can't get it together to vote in a government, whilst they still bicker about anything, often about who's great grandfather once voted for someone different; the most castled country on the planet, for a reason. The locals here vote Tory even though the government has just effectively imposed cuts of £1000 per head of population on the largest county with the lowest density population in the whole UK; once the eastern european's take over it will be better Clap
and the sheep won't look so worried Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverbullet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 16 at 11:59
Here's a thought. The Yanks need us to stay in because keeping GB in the EU is their open door to Europe for TTIP (the mechanism that will be used by the likes of Monsanto and Bayer to dump their GM food products and all the rest of it over here) and they have been publicly seen to be applying some pretty heavy leverage to that effect.
I don't want to be a part of letting that happen, I don't want unelected eurocrats telling me how straight a parsnip should be, I don't want suspect GM food on the shelves, I don't want UK farmers continuing to dump tons of edible produce every day because it doesn't fit the standardized packaging lines.
I would rather put up with the minor inconvenience of importing/exporting goods with a little more paperwork (like dealing with the USA right now)

We never had the Euro anyway, so what would really change? Remember using the services in Luxembourg in the pre-Euro days when you could pay in multiple currencies?

Upside: strength in unity.
Downside: hidebound by bureacracy.

I was a stayer, but I am drifting toward leaving.
Have I missed anything?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3Panel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 16 at 12:08
Throwing food away is less to do with the EU and more to do with supermarkets not wanting to try and sell us food that doesn't fit their standardised product marketing. Lots of people sell the ugly stuff in this county, mainly under the organic banner for more money. It's about consumers in this country standing up for themselves and saying no, rather than the EU.......
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