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EU...in or out...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 10:49
Not making excuses chap...I'm as disillusioned with politicians as everyone else. I agreed with you, yes they should sort it out.

You asked "Why do we have governments and 2 years to sort these things out"

My answer - It's because, despite all the evidence and common sense pointing to the contrary, we still voted (as a nation) for something that will take a massive amount of time and money to sort out, even if they did pull their finger out and get fixing.

It's a total sh*t-fest...and we voted for it (well, I didn't, but that's life).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 10:55
The reason they have failed is because they were charged with delivery the impossible i.e. free unicorns to every household.

To take one example, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, acknowledging the importance of honouring the Good Friday Agreement, clearly stated

Quote 10 (2)Nothing in [...] of this Act authorises regulations which—

(b)create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls, that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU.

And yet the Prime Minister laid down a red line that stated the UK governement would impose immigration controls. How do you imagine they would impose such immigration controls without border checks in Ireland?

Obviously there were other promises about NHS funding (an extra £350 million), committments to remain in the Single Market, that any trade deal would the easiest ever, and assurances that we held all the cards in any negotiation, that were patently false, and which ultimately meant that the government could only fail in getting a deal that met all these requirements.

The UK was promised a Brexit dividend but now the Leavers talk about at least a generation of hardship
Originally posted by William Rees Mogg William Rees Mogg wrote:

We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time... The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.

It's hardly what was on the ballot paper is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 11:23
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

The reason they have failed is because they were charged with delivery the impossible i.e. free unicorns to every household.

To take one example, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, acknowledging the importance of honouring the Good Friday Agreement, clearly stated

Quote 10 (2)Nothing in [...] of this Act authorises regulations which—

(b)create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls, that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU.

And yet the Prime Minister laid down a red line that stated the UK governement would impose immigration controls. How do you imagine they would impose such immigration controls without border checks in Ireland?

Obviously there were other promises about NHS funding (an extra £350 million), committments to remain in the Single Market, that any trade deal would the easiest ever, and assurances that we held all the cards in any negotiation, that were patently false, and which ultimately meant that the government could only fail in getting a deal that met all these requirements.

The UK was promised a Brexit dividend but now the Leavers talk about at least a generation of hardship
Originally posted by William Rees Mogg William Rees Mogg wrote:

We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time... The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.

It's hardly what was on the ballot paper is it?

I think you should go to specksavers
The bus said £350 billion to the EU let's fund our NHS instead. Not spend all.the money.
We have 350000 civil servents that probably could have been put to better use over the last couple of years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 13:41
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

I think you should go to specksavers
The bus said £350 billion to the EU let's fund our NHS instead. Not spend all.the money.
We have 350000 civil servents that probably could have been put to better use over the last couple of years. 

I'm hoping even you know that what was printed on the side of that bus was a lie.

It said we send '£350 MILLION a week' but, as I'm sure you know, that number has been comprehensively debunked as misleading as it failed to take into account the UK's rebate, which is applied before any money was paid, and the money that came straight back into the UK as funding for various projects. Once you've actually taken all these figures into account the actual sum we spent on the EU was £7.1 billion per year (£136 million per week). Still a lot of money but only seven times what the current government have bunged to the DUP to try to buy their votes in parliament.


Edited by clift_d - 25 Mar 19 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 13:50
I agree this goverment will go down I history but not for good reasons. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 14:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 14:48
F**k me. Abandoning roaming mobile charges was one of the best things ever when it happened, I know it's way down the list of actually important things, but it was awesome.

F**k you Brexit, f**k you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 19 at 15:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 19 at 11:28
Just thought it would be useful to pop the following here.

Originally posted by In the White Paper on The United Kingdom’s exit from and new partnership with the European Union - Section 2.1 the Government In the White Paper on The United Kingdom’s exit from and new partnership with the European Union - Section 2.1 the Government wrote:

The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.

You can get a copy of this document here, signed at the front by PM Theresa May and Secretary Of State For Exiting The EU David Davis.

If we always had sovereignty then why do you suppose some MPs, who should know better, would spread the lie that Brexit was all about taking back control. Could it be that they perhaps had alterior motives - power / money / etc?

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Edited by clift_d - 26 Mar 19 at 11:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 19 at 21:51
Apparently Poundland Trump (Boris Johnson) has just told the BBC that people want politicians in Westminster...
Quote not to focus on themselves, but to focus on the needs of the country.

OMFG... the front, the irony...   if you didn't laugh you'd cry...   Censored



Edited by clift_d - 02 Apr 19 at 21:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 10:06
BJ is such a smug, self-serving c*ck-womble.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 17:35
He is probably right.
I can't remember anything on the reforendome paper that said anything about a deal. 
If I remember rightly it said do you want to leave the EU or do you want  to stay In the EU. 
Politicians have changed it all to suit them not the electorate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 18:22
Boris has never stood up for anything except Boris, and he's lied and cheated throughout, to everyone.

Don't forget he had written two completely different versions of the Telegraph article which was published just before he announced which side he would be supporting. One article was strongly in favour of Remain and one was strongly in favour of Leave. He chose to go with the article that he thought would put him in the best position to advance his career the most. That's hardly the behaviour of a man with principles.

Here for example is Boris advocating for the EU, and there are any number of similar quotes that can be easily found.


Oh, and don't forget he was one of the directors for Vote Leave who have just admitted to breaking electoral law during the Referendum.

Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

I can't remember anything on the reforendome paper that said anything about a deal. If I remember rightly it said do you want to leave the EU or do you want  to stay In the EU. Politicians have changed it all to suit them not the electorate. 


You remember correctly. But the ballot paper also didn't say anything about leaving the customs union, or about the need to be able to limit immigration, or about addressing the northern Ireland border, or about trading on WTO terms, or about being able to strike independent trade agreements, etc, etc.

It was like having a ballot on whether people wanted ice cream, without asking what flavours people might want. At the end of the day somebody has to decide what single flavour everyone gets, and you won't be able to please everyone. And you also cannot expect the people who voted to say they didn't want ice cream to be happy about being made to eat ice cream.

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ps://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/782633174035787776r.com/AdamBienkov/status/782633174035787776





Edited by clift_d - 05 Apr 19 at 10:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 19 at 18:14
More of the kind of humbug and hypocrisy that we've come to expect from JRM on display...




Basically an acknowledgement that all the things the Leave campaign told people would be imposed on us if we stayed in the EU were lies, i.e. we'd have no choice about the EU budget, or an EU army, or French moves to force a federal Europe. Now he's admitting we would have had the power to veto these things if we didn't like them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 19 at 19:18
At what cost to GB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 19 at 20:16
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

At what cost to GB

At what cost to GB has the whole Brexit debacle been...?

Current estimates are that the UK economy so far has lost at least £66 billion since the referendum, which is around a 3% drop in GDP at the end of last year.

That's a total of around £550 million per week, which is roughly £1000 for every person in the country, and a lot more than was printed on the side of a certain bus. It's also pretty close to the 3.6% loss in GDP the government predicted pre-referendum, which the Leave campaign labelled as 'Project Fear'. Other estimates put the cost even higher at between £600 million and £800 million per week.


The only metric that's up is employment and the main reason for that, given all the other indicators, is that businesses tend to hire staff in times of uncertainty rather than invest in plant. If the outlook changes a business can then reduce their overheads relatively quickly by reducing staff numbers, whereas it can take much longer to reduce the overheads on any long term investment in plant.

It's not good, and this is before we've even left the EU. It also doesn't include the billions that have been wasted by the government on this stupidity.

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Edited by clift_d - 05 Apr 19 at 20:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 19 at 09:42
Most of that is due to polatitions not getting on with it and leaving business in a state of limbo for 3 years 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 19 at 10:27
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

Most of that is due to polatitions not getting on with it and leaving business in a state of limbo for 3 years 

No it's not.

It's due to the whole stupid Brexit con job and the fact that it's always been based on a tissue of lies. I think you know it, and I also think you know that everybody in the country is going to be a loser.

It's like the dollar auction game - the only thing Leavers can now hope to gain from the process is to make sure the 'other side' lose more than 'their side'.

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Edited by clift_d - 06 Apr 19 at 11:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 19 at 12:33
Half empty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 19 at 13:32
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

Half empty


LOL

You're not even trying now... you probably don't believe enough in Brexit.




Edited by clift_d - 06 Apr 19 at 13:44
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