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EU...in or out...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 19 at 16:16
your probably not even half full
Mine is full waiting for the prats in Westminster so we can celebrate

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 19 at 16:43
Ermm

Err, whatever...

Thanks for trying your best...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 19 at 12:45
And to those who say that people always knew, when they voted Leave, that they were voting for 'No Deal' take a look at some of the statements pre-referendum from various politicians in this twitter thread:


Interestingly enough, the only politicians in any of those clips who clearly appear to be flagging up the risk that leaving the EU might end up with us leaving the Single Market were on the Remain side of the argument, and their contributions were labelled at the time as 'Project Fear'.

One other interesting statistic from ComRes polling that was done in 2016 a couple of weeks after the EU Referendum:

Responding to the statement:

Quote Following the result of the EU referendum, the UK will now have to negotiate a new deal on the EU single market. The EU Single Market allows countries in the EU to trade with each other without additional charges or regulation standards.  As part of this access, they must agree to rules allowing free movement of people including the right of EU citizens to be able to live and work anywhere in the EU.



To be clear - a minority of only 35% of Leave voters said that they expected we would 'Leave the EU Single Market and end rules on free movement', and means that the majority of voters, including a majority of Leave voters, had no idea that a vote to leave the EU might mean 'No Deal'.

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Edited by clift_d - 08 Apr 19 at 16:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 19 at 18:16

Quote It’s nearly three years since I, along with 17. 4 million other Britons, voted for Brexit. Today I have to admit that the Brexit project has gone sour.

Brexit has paralysed the system. It has turned Britain into a laughing stock. And it is certain to make us poorer and to lead to lower incomes and lost jobs.

We Brexiteers would be wise to acknowledge all this. It’s past time we did. We need to acknowledge, too, that that we will never be forgiven if and when Brexit goes wrong. Future generations will look back at what we did and damn us.

So I argue, as a Brexiteer, that we need to take a long deep breath. We need to swallow our pride, and think again. Maybe it means rethinking the Brexit decision altogether.

Nothing really to add to that.


Edited by clift_d - 08 Apr 19 at 18:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 19 at 21:51
^^^ It's just a pity the guy you quote can't even use the correct terminology...
These feckin idiots spouting forth their views would have more credibility if they actually used words that accurately describe what they are discussing.
Where the fuck does "Britain" come into it? The UK is the member state.
That'll be the UK that is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
"Great" Britain being the term to describe the largest island in the British Isles which is a geographical landmass. The "Great" refers to greater in size, not "great" because it is great / brilliant. It's actually really shit for quite a lot of reasons. An archaic political system that has caused this clusterfeck being an obvious example.
The UK is a union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England (the latter of which includes Wales and Northern Ireland).
The two kingdoms may share the same person as queen but her status in each kingdom differs significantly. She is the Queen of England, but she is only the Queen of Scots. That's a big difference for those that have the capacity to comprehend what that means.
The inaccurate terms used by those in positions of power and influence as well as the mainstream media that use words such as "county", "nation", and "Britain" to describe the UK continue to misinform and further confuse an already pretty politically unaware electorate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 19 at 22:22
it's probably an affectation to Brittania and Empire...

I'm fairly relaxed about that - I just find it interesting that people are finally starting to see the Brexit emperor has got no clothes. 

Hopefully it's not too late to do something about it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 19 at 20:51

The Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee (PSNC) acknowledge that Brexit could be an exacerbating factor in the shortages that are being reported by pharmacies. although I'm sure some will try to say that it's just a coincidence that the list of generic medicines that are currently experiencing shortages is the longest since a list was first compiled in 2014, and double the level of shortages that were experienced last autumn.

Also the Epilepsy Society is monitoring a 'steep rise' people having serious issues obtaining necessary medication, and is calling for an urgent review of the supply chain. Again, I'm sure that some willl argue that it's just a coincidence that it's got so bad as we're on the verge of leaving the EU.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 19 at 21:16
Have you been mis-sold a "Brexit"...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 19 at 22:12
Originally posted by danstervan danstervan wrote:

Have you been mis-sold a "Brexit"...



Hahahaha! LOL

If only it weren't so true...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 19 at 12:12

In its defense the Telegraph said the article
Quote was clearly comically polemical, and could not be reasonably read as a serious, empirical, in-depth analysis of hard factual matters.

Just like BoJo methinks...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 19 at 23:01
Think this pair may have been out in the sun too long... Wacko


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boilerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 19 at 18:09
I voted remain. Not for any political reasons because democracy passes me by. I'd like to think that I'm a European rather than a George Cross wielding white English man, even though I'm half Irish. There was never enough truthful discussion at the time of voting for this to be a fair and (if you want) democratic act. Mostly because no-one knew what leaving really meant, so a new vote is only fair considering we now know how we will be affected, well nearly know.
I don't have the fear of the "foreigner" like many do, when you go to their countries you see how alike we really are, and in some ways more friendly too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote randolph57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 16:30
The Matrix has you.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boilerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 17:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 19 at 21:04
Live footage of the UK leaving the EU.  Ermm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 19 at 10:12
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

The US governement has now published a Summary of Specific Negotiating Objectives for any trade agreement that they might make with the UK

A few choice items:

"Establish a mechanism to remove expeditiously unwarranted barriers that block the export of U.S. food and agricultural products in order to obtain more open, equitable, and reciprocal market access." i.e. remove food safety standards that act as a barrier to US agricultural products;

"Establish state-of-the-art rules to ensure that the UK does not impose measures that restrict cross-border data flows and does not require the use or installation of local computing facilities." i.e. your personal data can be moved around, stored in the US where it will be accessible by the US government, and used as per US standards;

"Establish rules that reduce or eliminate barriers to U.S. investment in all sectors in the UK" i.e. remove barriers to US companies bidding for NHS contracts;

With regard to government procurement "Providing impartial administrative or judicial review authority to review challenges or complaints.", i.e. allow companies to sue the government if they don't get a contract.

"Provide a mechanism to ensure transparency and take appropriate action if the UK negotiates a free trade agreement with a non-market country", i.e. allow the US to take action over other trade agreements the UK might wish to sign.

"Provide mechanisms for terminating the Agreement under appropriate circumstances", i.e. presumably allow the US to unilaterally terminate any trade deal;

There are also requirements for fewer restrictions on GM and other bio-engineered food, and a whole section at the end on measures to prevent boycotts of any Israeli products or services for whatever reason.

What do you reckon the odds are of the US getting whatever they want in a negotiation with Liam Fox - 100% or higher than that?

Apparently..."The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" - Michael Gove, 9 April 2016


Don't say you weren't warned.

The US Ambassador has just reiterated that the above are going to be on-the-table requirements for a US-UK trade deal.

Since a US-UK trade deal is one of the few things No Deal supporters constantly tout as a supposed 'benefit' to crashing out of the EU, it's worth remembering therefore that if you cast a vote for the Brexit Party, or any candidate that favours a No Deal exit from the EU, you are lending your support to:

- Privatisation of NHS services

- GM foods, chlorinated chicken and hormone-enriched beef on our shelves

- Removal of many of the restrictions on the sharing of your personal data

- Allowing US companies to sue the UK government

If none of that seems like a bad thing to you, then you go for it, but don't say you weren't warned.

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Edited by clift_d - 03 Jun 19 at 10:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 19 at 21:16
Aye clift_d. It is remarkable that so much of what was stated earlier in the thread has come to be. I'm not stating that to gloat, more in disappointment that some saw this coming and tried to point it out to folk.
Getting on for half the voters in the recent EU elections voted for a party, sorry company, that had no manifesto and a leader that wants to privatise the health service for the benefit of his mates.
And yet again it highlighted the differing views of the constituent parts of the UK.

It was strange how this thread had no input for a few weeks with all that was going on with our strong and stable government.
Probably for the best as we may have fucked the BY server if we'd tried to keep the thread going with all the antics of the "UK political elite"*
* aka bunch of self-serving flip flopping shitebags.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 19 at 23:00

Also, the 'definitely Leave' parties got a significant amount less than the 'definitely Remain' parties, if you discount the Conservative and Labour vote because neither of the two main parties can decide whether they're coming or going.

Definitely Remain = 40.4% (Lib Dem + Greens + Change UK + SNP + Plaid Cymru)

Definitely Leave = 34.9% (Brexit party + UKIP)

Labour = 14.1%

Conservatives = 9.1%

It's also worth noting that the Brexit Party actually received a smaller share of the vote than the combined loss in vote share for UKIP and the Conservatives, meaning the Remain parties picked up votes from the Conservatives as well as from Labour, suggesting a swing away from Leave.


Edited by clift_d - 04 Jun 19 at 00:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 00:44
I should have clarified that "getting on for half the vote" was in certain areas.

There's no way you can just leave out Conservative and Labour from the percentages for either leave or remain.
A bit of analysis on that subject in following link.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/all-change-and-no-change





Edited by danstervan - 04 Jun 19 at 01:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 10:39
Interesting, but I think both those articles are assuming that everyone who stuck with Labour and the Conservatives is likely to be a hard Leaver and so could be counted on voting as such in any confirmatory ballot on a deal.

I suspect that is also an over simplification, and that there are a fair few people who stuck with both those parties who are more pragmatic, and who may be willing to honour the first referendum if a reasonable deal is presented, but who would not necessarily support a No Deal outcome.

In any case I think it's clear that there is no majority in the Commons for a No Deal, and any Prime Minister is currently bound by the requirement to win a confirmatory vote on the final terms of any deal.

However, that majority against No Deal also means that were PM BoJoZo, for sake of argument, to try crashing us out of the EU anyway, then there may be enough Conservative MPs that would vote with the opposition in a motion of No Confidence to trigger a general election. Country before Party, etc, etc.

Of course once we get to a general election then who knows what will happens, but I'm hoping that by the time we get to that point either Labour will have come off the fence, or the other Remain parties will have come to an arrangement that will allow one Pro-EU candidate per constituency to stand un-contested.


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