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EU...in or out...

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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 19 at 14:24
Originally posted by T3ADICT T3ADICT wrote:

To be totally honest... there is way worse going on in the rest of the EU and has been going on before the EU exit decision here in the UK.
 
the 2008 crash again hit other parts of the EU way worse than us, some of which are still only now improving. Predictions are as the word says Predictions.. they have yet to happen and are not fact but conjecture.
 
in or out there will always be somebody that's not happy, there will always be somebody that thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence..
 
If a big chunk the people that have put So much effort into objecting to leaving the EU after the vote was cast, had put that much effort into Making the "REAL Facts" clear before hand then the could hold their heads up high now...  but sadly that is not the case.
 
bickering, insulting, twisting information and only thinking about themselves is what has got us to where we are today. 
 when a politician takes home a normal tax payers wage (ie not in the 40%bracket) and acts like they have publics interest (that all of the UK not just London)  then I may start to trust them.
 
those that keep pushing for another vote Just presume that it would go the other way if we had another vote.. they have not even thought that is could equally go even more the other way than it went the first time.
 
as a last point... pushing and pushing the idea that leaving will cause a crash.. makes it more likely, confidence that we can do this and come out of it better off not only gives a good impression of this country to the outside world, but also promotes self confidence.


Yes, the EU may well be far from perfect, what is though? The trouble is with an isolationist mindset we won't be part of a system and lose the ability to influence its course.
Do you understand that as an EU citizen you are likely to have far more protections and rights than in the future under a regime run by the current shower in control of the UK?

You said there will always be some that think the grass is greener on the other side. It isn't hard to prove the grass is greener on the other side.

I posted this earlier in the thread...Some "benefits" of being in the UK:

The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world

The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union

The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world

The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU

The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU

The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU's 28 countries

The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU

The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe

The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe

The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe.

We have to endure the above because of our own UK government's policies. We can't blame anybody else I'm afraid.
Well, I guess at a stretch you can blame all the other governments for doing a better job than our own, but that is a fairly shaky position to take in defending our own shower of vermin running affairs. LOL

Last night I was attending a meeting discussing the EU Settlement Scheme with our local MP and MSP. Numerous EU Nationals in attendance. Almost every one of them unique in their circumstances and having to go through hurdles and uncertainty.
Many have lived here far longer and paid more tax than our own indigenous citizens.
It became apparent that two had over 60 years contributing to our society, and another mentioned they'd moved here in 1967. Arguably those folk are more Scottish than myself as I was born in 1969.
Over the years these folk have integrated into our communities and have become fellow workers, friends, and even family members. They came here legally and it is a disgrace that they are now having to endure this, even more so with knowledge of the recent Windrush situation.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 19 at 17:15
Originally posted by ft.com ft.com wrote:

Tokyo is confident that it can secure better terms from the UK than it did in negotiations with the much larger EU, and is not willing to duplicate the existing treaty precisely in either a bilateral deal or in talks for the UK to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership group.


The world is queuing up to take advantage of the UK government, but maybe that's just me not 'believing' enough in Britain.

Originally posted by Michael Gove MP Michael Gove MP wrote:

The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.
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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 19 at 17:48
^^^ Hey clift_d, from a wee while back... Apparently "It doesn't matter". Wacko


There is a part of me that actually feels a little sympathy for folk like this older chap. They have been woefully misinformed over the years and because of this they just can't comprehend the complex realities of the modern world.
Big business and corporate interests will shred their overly simplistic views.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 19 at 18:54
That lies somewhere in the space between cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias and sheer stupidity.

The worrying thing is that you can daily see our elected representatives on the telly, holding forth about Brexit in a way which demonstrates that their level of understanding of the issues is indistinguishable from that fellow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steptop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 19 at 02:13
Reassuring that VW crew keeping it real Clap. More succinct truth and sense (backed by referenced or reference-able facts) in this thread than almost anywhere else I've seen in months. 
Too many cars, not enough space...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 19 at 19:27
Originally posted by Steptop Steptop wrote:

Reassuring that VW crew keeping it real. More succinct truth and sense (backed by referenced or reference-able facts) in this thread than almost anywhere else I've seen in months. 

Indeed...it is a refreshingly civil conversation on here, mostly with facts.

I had to give up on 'the other forum' as it just turns to petty insults and the classic "you lost, get over it" line, brilliant.

One chap is convinced that Jacob Rees Mogg is some kind of knight in shining armour, sent to deliver Britain from the EU dark ages. No amount of facts (or simply pointing out he's a racist, homophobic cash hungry bigot) will shift the opinion. What more can you do when people place such belligerent faith in a person you can literally prove is only out for themselves?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 19 at 22:15
Honest, they definitely know what they are doing. Wacko



At least Dave is capable of thought. Albeit a bit late... LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 19 at 11:53
The drip drip drip of bad news keeps coming...


And that's before we've even left and in only two years - anybody else remember 'Project Fear'?

Quote Treasury analysis also shows that if the UK leaves the EU, after 15 years this could mean:
- a cost per year equivalent to £4,300 per household in the UK
- a hit to tax receipts of £36 billion a year
- this is the equivalent of an extra 8p on the basic rate of income tax

That was a fifteen year prediction but it looks liked we're already well on our way... ho hum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 19 at 23:54
The boy's gone full loco. Shocked

A few months ago he states like a child "Russia should go away and shut up".
Now he states "Britain should be ready to use military force to support its global interests after Brexit".


These people are complete feckin idiots. Wacko 

Who the feck votes imbeciles like this into position of power. He doesn't come across as having the intellect or practical capability of changing a cv boot, never-mind having the wit to consider the multifaceted implications of military conflict.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 00:23
It's all about harkening back to an imperial past when trade negotiations were the easiest thing in the world to do, as they were always conducted by the British Army.

Apparently the defence secretary thinks Brexit will increase the 'UK's military standing'... perhaps his plan is to sell all the chairs? After all didn't he suggest arming old tractors as mobile missile launchers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 12:07
Drip drip drip ...

According to one of the members of the Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee, figures suggest that the UK economy has now lost around £80 billion since the EU referendum. This equates to around £800 million per week over the period, which is more than twice the sort of number that a bunch of lying spivs might paint on the side of a bus.

Presumably this is the 'Brexit Dividend' ... ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 13:29
Oops ...


Drip, drip, drip ...

It might just be me, but it doesn't seem like we have had many people in defending Brexit recently ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 14:11
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

It might just be me, but it doesn't seem like we have had many people in defending Brexit recently ...


Aye, the "leave masif" have indeed been somewhat conspicuous by their absence...

They're probably all busy as fook knocking together new Austin Allegros and Sherpa vans, and making innovative jam while they still have enough leccy to do so.
Currently over 7% coming from those pesky Europeans.


Gonna be a lot harder to boil jam and weld with just a candle for power. LOL
Come to think of it they'll have hee haw to weld seeing as the British Steel industry got trashed by "our so competent governments".

Time to play Big Country again on the demise of that industry.




Edited by danstervan - 14 Feb 19 at 14:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 13:40
An intersting article summarising some of the impacts of a no deal Brexit:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 19:02
Originally posted by danstervan danstervan wrote:

Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

It might just be me, but it doesn't seem like we have had many people in defending Brexit recently ...


Aye, the "leave masif" have indeed been somewhat conspicuous by their absence...


No we are just quietly waiting till we are out.
Only a few of weeks to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 20:10
ROFL. Can't wait to leave and never mind the consequences.

Did you think we might end with no deal when you voted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 21:36
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

ROFL. Can't wait to leave and never mind the consequences.

Did you think we might end with no deal when you voted?
  
Yes and having owned a company that exported both in and out of the EU a lot of what thats said is far from the truth.
We exported to Spain France Germany Norway Switzerland USA Japan and Canada.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 22:16
What things specifically have you heard that aren't true?

I take it you've had a look at the 'No Deal' guidance notices from the UK Government and the European Commission. They don't leave much to the imagination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 22:33
How difficult it is to do the paper work for exporting and how small firms will find exporting allmost imposible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:19
Really... is that all?

Okay. All that stuff is set out in the technical notices for HM Gov and the EU. The main reason it will be difficult for small businesses is not the difficulty it's the expense. There'll be additional documentation and software to process it for anything that's shipped along with the extra staffing required to do that. HM Gov has suggested that companies should look into engaging the services of Customs Agents or Logistical Forwarders which is additional expense. There are the delays required to do the paperwork, to get the approvals processed, plus any delays that might be incurred at the border - don't forget most stuff goes in trucks with goods from multiple sources heading to multiple destinations - if any paperwork on any one of those shipments has an error then the whole truck gets delayed, and time is money. And then there's the duty payments that will need to be made upfront in order to cross the border. As you've shipped to Norway and Switzerland you will know that these coutries can often require duty payments up front which are not necessarily reflected in the value of the goods concerned, and can be much higher and this will be the case for the whole EU. And then there are the tariffs - as our WTO schedule of tariffs has yet to be agreed at the WTO we'll be trading with the EU as a 'Third Country' which means the highest rate of applicable duty on anything we try to sell into the EU. Only Mauritania trades without a WTO schedule and they have a preferential deal with the EU for African countries called 'Anything but Arms' which gives them zero tariff access for all other goods, so the UK will be on worse terms than any other country in respect of our biggest customers.

So you're right it's not impossible, but if small companies have to deal with even a part of the above I think it's fair to say it won't be economical for many of them to trade into the EU any more.
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