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ESP and brake pad warning light

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Delfhill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ESP and brake pad warning light
    Posted: 25 Sep 19 at 19:52
Hi Everyone,
I’ve not posted for a while as no big problems have occurred although I needed a new intercooler a couple of months ago, all new springs, shock absorbers, callipers and discs last year etc etc. £££
I’ve now got a warning message to check my brake pads although initially the warning was to check the brake fluid. Fluid level is fine, plenty of brake pad left, bridging the sensors on the pads makes no difference. Now the ESP light is on as well, but not the ABS light. My local garage that usually services the van says it must be the ABS pump although he doesn’t have full VAGCOM diagnostics, probably about £2000 to put right. 
The van is a 2.5 4Motion with 130,000 miles on the clock.
Before I go off to the main dealers I’m just wondering if this could be an electrical connection fault, I know about the crimped corroding connectors under the rear wheel arches but it seems the ABS light comes on if they are at fault. The ABS still works if I brake hard on gravel. 
Any help would be most welcome, thanks in advance.
I do wonder if the time has come to get a newer van!
4Motion 130 window van, medium roof, camper conversion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 19 at 21:58
You could really do with getting on VCDS to see what codes it has.  It needs to be a full scan so if the fault is in another controller say, CAN gateway or instruments you will get to find out.  It could be a wiring fault or low voltage problem.  

If the code turns out to be anything that mentions the brake pressure sensor (G201) that is now part of the ABS pump and is expensive to replace as you say.  You can send them to a specialist for repair but sometimes they are sent back as 'beyond repair'.  Much cheaper though if it works.

Just a thought, you haven't got the 'ESP OFF' button pressed have you? ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 19 at 22:06
Thanks very much for your quick reply. The ESP button doesn’t light up any more when I press it, I did wonder if I had pressed it by mistake but in the past I’m pretty sure it would have lit up if I had turned off the ESP. I think I must go by your advice and get a full VCDS check which I think means going to a main dealer, I don’t know any independent VW specialist nearby that has VCDS. I had wondered about getting a VCDS lite cable and using the free VCDS lite download, do you have any experience of this? Thanks again for your help.
4Motion 130 window van, medium roof, camper conversion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 10:04
You could try that but VCDS lite won't work with CAN equipped vans.  It might work with an '04 or '05 which doesn't have a full CAN system though. If yours is a really early van you could give it a go.  

The ABS pumps can fail in more than one way, when the controller (computer) side fails it usually leads to the ABS and the ESP lights being on (plus a few other dashboard gremlins along the way!) and sometimes the controller will no longer communicate with anything no matter how much it costs!  But yours does sound more like it is the pump side which includes the brake pressure valve I mentioned.

If yours is a very early van I would try with VCDS lite and an ebay cable.  Read the stuff online on the Audi forum and Ross-tech's advice about configuration for the best chance of sucess.  https://www.ross-tech.com/vcds-lite/  If you get any codes come back here with them. Smile

A local auto electrical place will be a cheaper than a main dealer and may offer you a repair option.  Don't know where you are in West Heaven but google says there is a VAG indie diagnostic place here - https://www.cartechuk.com  I know nothing about them but you could have a chat with them and see if you like the cut 'o their jib!  They will certainly have come across this problem before.  

The previous brake pad and fluid level lights thing sounds odd to me for the common pump fault yet the controller side usually causes both the ABS and ESP lights to come on therefore it could be a wiring fault. 

Don't forget to check all the fuses (with a meter or test light) because from memory there are two ABS fuses in the fuse box down by the battery.  Important Don't take any fuses out because you will cause spurious codes that will cause future confusion.  All you need to do, with the ign on, is to check that any fuse that does have battery voltage on one side has it also on the other.  Check each fuse in turn and don't allow any two fuses to be shorted together.  Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 12:39
Thanks again T5 TDI for your help. I have checked the fuses but I’m afraid I did pull them out to have a visual check. The ignition was off, but have I made matters worse in view of your warning. I hope not! I think I’ll get an eBay cable and try VCDS lite, thanks for your advice. Mine is an early 2005 model and I don’t think has Canbus.
I have spent the best part if this morning looking for the corroded joint that people say can give trouble in the ABS wiring leading from the rear offside wheel, not easy as I converted mine to a camper so access has been difficult. My wires were continuous all the way right into the thick loom carrying all the rear wires, so no joy there.
Years ago my diff lock light and ESP light came on. The van was under warranty and diagnostics pointed to the Haldex unit which was replaced. Driving home from the main dealer afterwards, the lights reappeared, I found it was all due to a dodgy electrical connector positioned above the rear diff. So I remain wary about duff electrical connections pretending to be major faults on diagnostics, hence the attempt to find a corroded crimped joint.
Car tech UK are just down the road from me, so I’ll give them a try I think, thanks.
I’ll let you know how I get on, thanks again for the advice
4Motion 130 window van, medium roof, camper conversion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 13:00
If your VCDS will communicate you can make a note of and then clear the codes and see what comes back.  If the ignition was off I doubt if you will have caused any ABS codes at least.

I have never done it but I read that you can get at that splice by taking the N/S rear lamp if your van is converted out but google around first because if I remember there was a warning about not pulling it out too far and something about a piece of wire with a hook!  I try and keep a bookmark of anything interesting T5-wise so if I find the link I will post it here.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 13:06
This could have been it https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104302&page=2 ; You might have seen it already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 13:11
Found the spliced joints! Thanks for the link, I had looked at that and fished out the loom with a hooked wire, but had to remove some trim from inside. Anyway, putting it all together, I find my joints were inside the corrugated conduit clipped onto the lower suspension arm, all outside the bodywork so no need to have been looking inside. The joints were fine, voltage the same above and below the joints, although only 2.4v, not 12v, not sure if that is what it should be.
Thanks again!
4Motion 130 window van, medium roof, camper conversion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 14:21
I remember Mastertech once saying that there should be a 12v feed to each sensor but I always thought that our type of sensors work with a small voltage. Confused

Usually the warning lights will go out with just a short drive after the is problem fixed but don't be too disheartened if not.  You may have to clear any codes with VCDS.  I'd be interested to hear how yer ebay cable/VCDS lite works out if you get it.  Keep a note of any codes you get for future info here.  :)


Edited by T5 TDI - 26 Sep 19 at 14:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 14:48
Hi T5 TDI, My cable arrived from Amazon this morning. After a bit of a faff setting it up, it actually works well.
My codes are:
0136 ABS control module
         013 check DTC memory
01435 brake pressure sensor (G201)
         012 electrical fault in circuit
01117 Generator terminal DF load signal
         008 implausible signal
00538 reference voltage
         014 defective

Some of these fault codes may be old. Would you happen to know what a DTC memory is?

I’m actually going to the main dealer on Monday, there are some very good deals at the moment on the T6s before the face lift T6.1 arrives so looking into that and getting the diagnostics done at same time.
Will keep you updated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 16:08
DTC means 'Diagnostic Trouble Code'.  I think that is just asking you to check the ABS controller for codes.  Usually that code is found in another controller that is linked to the problem so it is asking you to check the other linked controller.  Does it clear the codes and put the ESP light out?  The G201 code is a bit ominous as I mentioned above..

The alternator DF code is quite common on older T5's.  Many vans have been driving around for quite a few years with it.  I'm not saying it isn't a fault but it doesn't seem that serious.  I think a new alternator would possibly cure it or possibly a new J519 which is the unit under the dash above the driver's feet.    I had that code on my van plus a strange random idling speed dip which tripped the code.  I have disabled the system (by coding) which switches off unnecessary consumers if the battery gets low in charge and it has stopped the fault code. 

The last code could be caused by a poor earth to the J519.  It may be linked to the DF code too.  You could check that the small earth wire that goes on to the battery negative pole hasn't corroded off.  I'd be interested to know if this is the case. 

Just for info, when you are using VCDS it is important to know in which controller (engine, brakes, A/C etc) a particular code is stored.  Your reference voltage code and the DF code look like they come from the Cent Elec controller which is the the infamous J519.  The same reference voltage code could mean something different if it occurred in another controller.

Here is a bit more about the J519 :-)  http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/onboard-voltage-supply-unit-j519_topic92128.html

I keep thinking I should update my old thing, it's coming up to 16 next Jan and I've had it since new/117k.  I quite like the fact that it's not a pristine thing that I'm I'm frightened to leave in a supermarket car park.  I also like the fact that it has no DPF to block up.  But mostly I like the performance of the 174, it tows like a dream. Smile

    


Edited by T5 TDI - 27 Sep 19 at 16:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 16:24
Thanks again, it is looking like an ABS expensive fault. I will check the battery earth wiring and let you know, the van is outside at the moment and it's pouring with rain. I will also check which controllers were giving which faults.
I have hung onto our old van for the same reasons as you, it has a few knocks and dents so I'm not too precious about it, I love those 5 cylinders and no DPF, and we've had some great adventures together, but I'm beginning to get to the stage where it's difficult to trust the reliability. If I get a new one I can extend the warranty another 2 years for £370 so that would be 5 years with no big bills, tempting. I've spent  a few thousand over the last three years with the intercooler, new front struts, new springs, new discs and calipers and now the ABS. 
Thanks again
4Motion 130 window van, medium roof, camper conversion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 16:26
Forgot to say that VCDS lite would not clear the codes or extinguish the ESP light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 19 at 18:14
Hi again, an update.
The little battery earth lead was intact with no corrosion.
A visit to the main dealers today, the full diagnostics confirmed the ABS module was at fault so booked in for replacement. I have decided to sell the van so feel obliged to get it properly sorted beforehand. £££!
A test drive in a T6 was a revelation, I hadn’t appreciated how much quieter  and smoother it would be. So we’ve signed on the dotted line, a few sleepless night ahead I expect. Also gone for the DSG despite its reputation, my Wife’s Tiguan is a DSG 4Motion and so easy to drive and the extra power with the 199 will be good when towing. Great discounts before the T6.1 arrives, it was cheaper than some second hand ones.
ABS repair booked in next week, will post an update then.
Thanks again for all your help T5 TDI

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 19 at 19:11
Ah well, at least you'll have it fixed.  I know that feeling about not selling something you know is wrong.  I prefer to sleep well at night too!

What T6 engine did you go for?  I've been looking at one and two year old Kombis at the dealers.  I want a 150ps for towing.  I'd prefer a 180 but I've seen enough about the engines on the earlier ones to put me off!  

I don't know much about prices, the only other new vehicle I have ever bought lasted 25 years and my T5 is coming up for 16 years old now.  I like to keep 'em going!  It looks like 23-25k + VAT for what I want.  I want at least Trendline spec or maybe Highline.  I would be just as happy with a well spec'd twin slider panel van but a panel van with twin sliding doors and A/C (and more) like mine is a rare beast.

I will go for a manual but they do say that the modern DSG is something else.  Smile      


Edited by T5 TDI - 30 Sep 19 at 19:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 19 at 22:26
I had to have the more powerful engine (199ps) as that’s the only one available with the DSG and 4Motion combination. Having read about the problems with that engine, EGR valves etc and the DSG problems I thought I would never choose either, but with a 3 year warranty plus another 2 years for £320 I decided to risk it. My existing 130hp is quite adequate, but the extra torque of the new engine will make towing easier. 
Although I’ve had the T5 for nearly 15 years, I still have the 1956 Land Rover I bought for £90 in 1969, and it still works well!
2 fuses and nothing a few spanner’s and a hammer can’t fix. No ECUs, no DPF and not an ECU to be seen. Simples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 19 at 08:56
Wow, impressive!  Owning the same vehicle for 50 years! Thumbs Up    Double my meagre record and still going.  Cool   Good luck with the new van, I don't think there are any reports around of the the bi-turbo engines causing problems in the last few years so I doubt if you will have any trouble.  I don't think I would risk second hand (which it would have to be for me).  

Enjoy your new van, there's nothing nicer. Smile  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 19 at 09:02
Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delfhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 19 at 08:35
I should be posting an update about a successful trip to the main dealers, but I’m not. Apparently the new parts were damaged in transit so a round trip of 1 1/2 hrs and a wait of 1 1/2 hrs were wasted time. Not the dealers fault, just one of those things. They are collecting the van next time, Oct 21st, so hopefully that will be successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 19 at 09:30
Fingers crossed for a better result 2nd time around.
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