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Electric Shower Problems

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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Electric Shower Problems
    Posted: 19 Nov 19 at 07:53
Greetings Brickies,
 
In my rented flat I have a Stiebel Eltron DHB 18kw water heater that should provide enough hotwater to fill a bath/run a shower.
 
It has three temp settings 35/45/55c and it should flow between 9-12 litres a minute at these temps.
It does not, if you turn the water on too much the heating drops out and you have a cold shower.
 
I've looked at the wiring and it's a 400v 3 phase set up.
 
The neutral is not connected and the terminals (from Bottom to Top) 2-4 have the three phases connected to them. Across terminals 2 and 3 I have 400v. I am pretty sure that the landlord has wired it up incorrectly. How can I check the wiring out?
 
Cheers
Paul
 


Edited by Titus A Duxass - 19 Nov 19 at 07:54
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E
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tellytubby View Drop Down
Groupie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tellytubby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 19 at 13:22
I am not an electrician but my understanding is that with 3 phase star wiring you do not necessarily require a neutral so this setup is probably ok.

For it to run you will need all 3 phases connected.  It will stop running if one of the phases is disconnected - this is why only one terminal is marked as a switched input.

Be aware that the hazard with this setup is that it is live even when apparently switched off!

TT
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 19 at 11:25
Cheers TT
Bollocks to it all!!
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Mike Noc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 19 at 21:59
I'm not an electrician either but if the elements are wired in star then they will require a neutral, so looks like yours are wired in delta where they don't.

Often the manufacturer includes a wiring diagram on the inside of the casing.

I have used this forum for any electrical questions and they have been very helpful:



Edited by Mike Noc - 10 Dec 19 at 09:51
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 19 at 07:22
Cheers Mike.
Bollocks to it all!!
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Mike Noc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 19 at 13:44
No worries mate.

If you want to check the elements then with the incoming power switched off (always check with a meter to be doubly sure) test each pair of the 3 phase wires in turn for resistance; 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and then 4 to 2 with the heater itself switched on.

They should all be equal confirming that all 3 elements are OK. 


Edited by Mike Noc - 09 Dec 19 at 10:24
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Mike Noc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 19 at 23:56
Originally posted by Titus A Duxass Titus A Duxass wrote:

Greetings Brickies,
 
The neutral is not connected and the terminals (from Bottom to Top) 2-4 have the three phases connected to them. Across terminals 2 and 3 I have 400v. I am pretty sure that the landlord has wired it up incorrectly. How can I check the wiring out?
 
Cheers
Paul
 



Didn't spot the last bit before. You should have 400v between 2 and 3, 2 and 4 and also 3 and 4. Sounds like you have lost a phase, or as you say the supply end of cable 3 may not be connected correctly. Can you check the supply fuses - one may have blown.
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 19 at 14:17
Originally posted by Mike Noc Mike Noc wrote:


Didn't spot the last bit before. You should have 400v between 2 and 3, 2 and 4 and also 3 and 4. Sounds like you have lost a phase, or as you say the supply end of cable 3 may not be connected correctly. Can you check the supply fuses - one may have blown.

Thanks for the update.
The fuses are okay, each phase has its own circuit breaker.

I'll check the villages again this weekend and report back.

Titus


Edited by Titus A Duxass - 04 Dec 19 at 14:17
Bollocks to it all!!
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 19 at 13:15
Okay, I've just checked.
I have 400v between 2 and 4.
Between 2 & 3 and 4 & 3 I only have 250v.
Bollocks to it all!!
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Mike Noc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 10:40
As we don't have a circuit diagram to go on, if you isolate the circuit at the breaker and then disconnect the 3 wires at the chocblock going into the heater itself (just to take it out of the equation) then turn the power back on and measure across the 3 terminals again.

If you get the same reading on the supply cables as you got before then trace back the cable going into terminal 3 as with those readings it looks like it has been connected to neutral.

Might be worth checking the spare neutral cable 'cos it may be live - wouldn't be the first time I've come across that.

If you get something different post it up and we can go from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 11:28
Cheers mate.
I now have enough information to make the landlord do something.
He installed the heater despite not being qualified to do so.
Bollocks to it all!!
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Mike Noc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 13:48
Your're more than welcome Paul. The landlord shouldn't be buggering about installing 3 phase equipment if he doesn't know what he is doing.

Good luck with getting it sorted.
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 06:41
I've just discovered that if I touch the metal surround of the hob with one hand and then touch the body of my electric toaster with the other I get a light shock.

He says my toaster is kaput, what an arse!


Edited by Titus A Duxass - 10 Dec 19 at 06:42
Bollocks to it all!!
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Mike Noc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Noc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 09:49
Mate get a qualified electrician in to check all the wiring in the flat and send him the bill.
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 11:03
I think that's probably the best solution.
Bollocks to it all!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 19 at 13:26
I sorted a similar problem once.

In that instance, the tenant's iron
was incorrectly wired.

Your landlord is legally obliged
to have your wiring inspected
and certificated.

By Law, he must display the certificate.
Ditto your gas if you have any.
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Titus A Duxass View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Titus A Duxass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 08:10
Update.
The landlord came round on Friday.
 
He insisted that the shower was working correctly - until he tried to use it.
Then he announced that it is kaputt, he will order a new (better one).
 
He tested the 3 phases and said that one is a bit low but that is because the heater is pulling it down!
 
Anyway I have not disuaded him from ordering a new one.
 
We then went on to the toaster problem, again he insisted that it was my toaster.
I showed the same "fault" with a second toaster and an iron.
 
I took his test meter, connected it to the earth terminal in the socket that feeds the toaster and to the hob surround - he then said that something is wrong and proceeded to dismantle the socket!
 
After 30 minutes he admitted that he had no idea what the problem is and that we must get an electrician to check it out but that won't happen until after Christmas. I said okay I will not pay the full rent until it is fixed. He's not happy with that idea........
 
 
Bollocks to it all!!
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 08:34
Get a certificated electrician to sort it.

Send your landlord the bill.

Deduct the cost from your rent.

Unless your landlord is a short guy,
with a moustache who shouts a lot :o)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timjburrows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 10:28
Originally posted by Titus A Duxass Titus A Duxass wrote:

I've just discovered that if I touch the metal surround of the hob with one hand and then touch the body of my electric toaster with the other I get a light shock.

He says my toaster is kaput, what an arse!
that sounds like you earths not connected or the earth rod isn’t earthing properly,
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 11:04
Very true Tim 
 
Earth bonding is a whole can of worms though.
You need a lot of expensive kit to check it.
And a lot of know how to sort it.

From what Titus says,
I think the live feed to the heater
also has a bad connection somewhere.

I hope don't have 3 "Phases" Titus.
I think you have 
Live,
Neutral,
Earth.

3 phase electricity runs at
nearly 400 volts in Europe,
which is a bit dangerous.
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