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egr block yes or no ?

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touche View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 17:18
Originally posted by oddboy oddboy wrote:

would i benifit egr delete on  a 174 DPF which is remapped ?


possibly, speak to the tuning company who did your mapping. I know very little about dpf but chances are they turned the egr off or at least right down, because they ignore nox emissions anyway, hence the extra power you get.
They probably turned the egr down to help get the boost and power on quicker and get rid of the nasty light throttle running that egr gives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sti 360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 18:06
this is why i have not yet blocked mine ,it all sound right to me

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 21:48
Originally posted by touche touche wrote:

oh, jesus, here we go again...........
I am not sure why I need to do some research, and I fail to see how I am quite wrong???
To state that diesels do not have an ideal afr and cannot run rich or lean because 'they have no throttle plate' is total b*ll*cks and a statement I have heard a few times yet never, ever, ever, ever heard a good explanation as to why???
I am quite familiar with the differences between petrol and diesel, nasp and forced induction. I also understand manifold absolute pressure and what a throttle plate does.
How can you both suggest to me that a diesel cannot run rich or lean against a target air/fuel ratio and then start to discuss what happens to a diesel when it is run rich or lean???
 did I mention stocihiometry? or should we not discuss that one until I know what I am on about?
 
Discussion is fine and good, but if as a relative newbie on a forum you are going to disagree with what everyone else believes (and there are an awful lot of knowledgable people included in this particular "everyone" ie  lean air/fuel ratios for TDIs ) you need to back up your argument with some pretty convincing evidence to support your case.
 
My apologies to anyone who is wondering what a discussion about basic diesel principles is doing in an EGR thread, but I think this theory needs to be dealt with.
 
Please :
 
Describe how the power output of a VW TDI engine is controlled.
 
Don't bother trying to tell me that it is done by controlling the mixture by restricting the quantity of air going into the engine - well not unless you have good evidence that there is some kind of throttle plate functionality unique to VW TDIs that we have all somehow overlooked ?  
 
What is the ideal "target air/fuel ratio" for a VW TDI engine; and what would happen if it is running leaner than that ideal ratio.
 
And yes, I do understand stochiometric ratios, but I am slightly hazy on their applicability to diesel engines, maybe you should enlighten me on that too while you are at it.
 
Thank you.


Edited by gregozedobe - 03 Mar 09 at 21:50
ELVIS: "apply accuracy/brevity/clarity rule before you put ones fingers near the keyboard."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baxter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 22:08
Diesels only run at somewhere near stoichometirc at full chat, by their very nature they, if they ran at shoicometric all the time they would be revving their nads off.
I've never seen a Diesel with a Lambda sensor.
Fact of the matter is that the EGR delete is working, and there are plenty of happy cusomers, which is nice.
No management lights on, less crud in their inlet, some reporting more power, most reporting smoother operation.
So, the facts are that it work and it doesn't put the light on, which is what some where concerned about, so we're all happy.
Sorted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 11:44
Apologies for appearing to be a frosty newbie, but my original query quite clearly related to ecu fueling during egr operation and was quite swiftly told that I am dumb and have no idea about diesels, no, I am not a professional mechanic or automotive engineer but I am not a  dumbass. At best, the criticism that I received was both incorrect, off-topic and not a positive contribution to the thread. It could be construed as pointless and provacative.
I was told I was talking rubbish when I wasnt, it was also suggested by the same poster that diesels are different to petrols because they have no throttle plate, absolute and total nonsense, a diesel differs because it is a CI engine that burns diesel not petrol, the fact that they generally have no throttle plate is simply a feature of a diesel engine, because it is a CI engine, it compresses the air and injects the fuel which ignites due to the heat from the compressed air. If everything is relates to the throttle plate, does a petrol become a diesel when the throttle is fully open and there is either no vacuum or boost if its a blown motor? of course it doesnt, its spark ignition that compresses and burns an air/petrol mix.

As far as I am aware, a diesel will never get anywhere near stocih, even at full whack. There would be clouds and clouds of smoke. So you are quite right, stoich is to a degree irrelevant.

So to summarise-

1. My original comments and queries were entirely relevant to the topic.
2. My critics totally missed the point of the thread which was egr delete, I expanded on that by trying to discuss the ecus fueling strategy during egr operation.
3. Its actually someone else that doesnt understand diesels and modern engine management.

There are a few incorrect statements in this thread but I havent singled them out, made presumptions and jumped to conclusions and given the poster a hard time.

So, now, YOU tell me how the power output of  a diesel engine is controlled, THEN you can tell us all how this is affected by egr operation............and more to the point, how the ecus fueling strategy is affected by deleting the egr and not tweaking the ecus mapping?Ouch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smidsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 18:29
i take that the 'e' in your user name is pronounced.
 
you don't have to be here if you don't want to you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote triple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 21:18


So, now, YOU tell me how the power output of  a diesel engine is controlled, THEN you can tell us all how this is affected by egr operation............and more to the point, how the ecus fueling strategy is affected by deleting the egr and not tweaking the ecus mapping?Ouch

[/QUOTE]
 
I,l tell you how the power output of my vans diesel engine is controlled, with my right foot LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tarka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 22:53
hmmm, well i would like to start by saying i am not a mechanic and i know nothing about engines, simple.
 
This is a very interesting thread indeed as i would like to eliminate some light throttle hesitation (which i thought i could only do by a re-map) and now seems i can do with a simple block off plate. One thing i would LOVE to see is a picture showing exactly where this plate is supposed to go.
 
As for "Touche" i fully appreciate your contributions as you are obviously NOT just guessing at your contributions to this discussion, although it may do you some justice to go a little more on the debate side rather than statement side with your posts. And for existing members to work together to with Touche make an understandable conclusion to this thread as you all have alot of knowledge to offer.
 
I hope soon i can read a conclusion to say weather or not to do this mod as it sounds very promising so far :O)
 
Keep up the good work lads!!!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vdub_heaven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 09 at 00:16
Originally posted by tarka tarka wrote:

hmmm, well i would like to start by saying i am not a mechanic and i know nothing about engines, simple.
 
This is a very interesting thread indeed as i would like to eliminate some light throttle hesitation (which i thought i could only do by a re-map) and now seems i can do with a simple block off plate. One thing i would LOVE to see is a picture showing exactly where this plate is supposed to go.
 
As for "Touche" i fully appreciate your contributions as you are obviously NOT just guessing at your contributions to this discussion, although it may do you some justice to go a little more on the debate side rather than statement side with your posts. And for existing members to work together to with Touche make an understandable conclusion to this thread as you all have alot of knowledge to offer.
 
I hope soon i can read a conclusion to say weather or not to do this mod as it sounds very promising so far :O)
 
Keep up the good work lads!!!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 09 at 08:00
Sorry, I've officially lost interest in this thread, I prefer to talk to people that at least start off with polite debate. 
 
I'll leave the EGR discussion for those that are interested in continuing, and make my contributions where they are appreciated.
ELVIS: "apply accuracy/brevity/clarity rule before you put ones fingers near the keyboard."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zedzedeleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 09 at 09:59
Come on greg, don`t take the huff mate, your contributions are valued here, and I personally would like to thank you for them. All forums have a prickly patch now and then, we seem to be having one with this topic. Let`s keep the debate going until it has been resolved.
As far as egr delete goes, I can`t imagine an official dealer would be too keen to do it,  mine wouldn`t anyway, even if I offered to pay !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GymRatZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 09 at 10:50
I say block it off.
Not one single reason to keep an EGR in my opinion.
I was advised to remove the EGR valve on my Landrover TDi and even given the offical landrover part numbers for exhaust manifold blanking plate and gaskets, and air inlet pipe that didn't have the EGR vacuum pipe.
I spent hours cleaning out the plunum chamber (inlet manifold) of carbon deposits that had completely destroyed any form of designed air-flow into the engine.
We don't live in the US (Obviously talking from a UK perspective) and if MOT tests can be passed by a 10 year old D.I. engine with 200,000 miles on the clock then a modern diesel engine with super high pressure PD technology/injectors and everything else is going to walk it without any EGR or particulate filters etc etc.

My final words.
Disconnect the EGR from new before your plenum chamber gets coked up and clogged with sh1t that should ONLY be going out the exhaust.
Why polute clean filtered air with carbon enritched abrasive crap air?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 09 at 10:59
so is  it ok to block a 174 with dpf that has been remapped cheers guys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GymRatZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 09 at 11:37
I would if it were mine and will be doing it as soon as I get one.
As long as the electronickery doesn't mind then it's got to be the "kindest" mod to the engine IMHO.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 11:07
Originally posted by smidsy smidsy wrote:

i take that the 'e' in your user name is pronounced.
 
you don't have to be here if you don't want to you know.


very good point, why would  a newbie whos 'respectfully' told to 'go away and find out how a diesel works' in his first few postings want to come back? The forum wont grow very well with that sort of greeting. I bet the aforementioned 'engine tuner' (who probably could have been a great contributer to a forum like this) wont come back, I bet there are plenty more too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 11:17
Originally posted by triple triple wrote:



 
I,l tell you how the power output of my vans diesel engine is controlled, with my right foot LOL


I think this is getting close to the most relevant post regarding egr delete, it all comes back to that feeling through the right foot during that first 10% or so of throttle where boost is less than exhaust gas pressure (say 5-6psi) and egr is possible.

I may not be back, but it would be nice to have somewhere to go and chat if I get problems with my van, also perhaps i could share some stuff I have learnt.
The rear left bottom arm fault being one that you may or may not have heard of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 16:07
Originally posted by GymRatZ GymRatZ wrote:

 
I say block it off.
Not one single reason to keep an EGR in my opinion.
Dead
 
 
Well, after reading your post GymratZ I decided to put my blanking plate back. I must say there was quite a bit of black soot on the gasket.
 
I think you're right, that shit should be down the exhaust!Clap
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Onefut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 16:22
OK where do i get one from?
went on brickwerks but couldnt find oneConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLONKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 16:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 18:26
Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:

OK where do i get one from?
went on brickwerks but couldnt find oneConfused
 
C'mon Onefut, you don't need no bought in part, just knock one up in ya workshop. Thumbs Up
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