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Caravelle Electric Door fault - Locking Mechanism

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chrisjoanne View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 10:40

Hi

Let's hope someone can work out this little puzzle.....

Firstly before I get a request that I should search for the problem, I would like to confirm I've been through as much info on here and other forums to try and rectify my problem but I'm at a loss.

I've got a VW Caravelle with the dreaded electric doors. The doors (especially the curb side), get hammered by punters getting in and out (I'm a taxi driver) - the doors don't open quick enough and this leads to customers pulling and shoving on the doors most nights. I do use the buttons to over-ride but this can still cause the doors to "bounce".

Anyway, last week the door would only open half way and then the locking mechanism (power latch), starts to go crazy and a whirring noise goes on for a few seconds. I've then got to press the dash button to close then open the door very quickly (2 quick press') to get it to open fully.

Red arrow is pointing to what I would call the locking mechanism or power latch which is "whirring".


When the door starts to open fully (or even closes) the sliding door locking mechanism still has a whirring noise.

However, this isn't a problem which occurs all the time.....it's very intermittent. Over the weekend the door would only open about 4 inches and I had a horrendous time with it.

I decided after reading a few comments to dismantle the rear side panel - the cable is fine and has no visible signs of damage.

I also dismantled the interior rear side panel to view the motor and locking mechanism. I didn't know what to expect or what I may have been able to see but everything looked fine. When the door was opening/closing the electronic system seems to work correctly - extremely infuriating that with the panel off everything seemed to be working....probably just a co-incidence.

After doing a few tests like holding the dash button fully to open close the door or do a "quick tap"....even tests with opening with the key fob and by the door handle itself would all bring the same results.......sometimes it opens/closes fully, other times it opens halfway with plenty of whirring. I also checked the fuses which look fine.

Then I had a bit of a brainstorm - I thought it could be a central locking problem. I then pressed the "unlock" button on the driver door panel THEN pressed the dash button for the electric door and it worked. I've done this about 20+ times and I does seem to override it.

I don't know how or why but it does seem to rectify the problem but I would like you guys to give a bit more insight into what could cause the problem.

Around 6 months ago I had a problem with the driver door lock and decided to try and fix it myself - this required a new lock which was a pain in the backside to fit. After fitting the door lock the central locking works perfectly correctly but when I try and exit the driver side door I always need to press the "unlock" button on the window panel first and then the interior handle to open the door - which obviously isn't correct.

I've checked for broken wires - they all look fine.

I don't know if a diagnostics test would inform me of these two faults but I would like them rectified before my next MOT taxi test in 3 weeks time.

Sorry for the long winded question/information. Obviously I am extremely grateful in advance for users reading this and trying to solve this problem. Smile

Cheers

Chris


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 11:52
You say you have checked the wiring.
 
My T5's develop a central locking problem and it is always below the drivers seat.
 
Have you have a rummage there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rebuild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 12:07
blue with red stripe with a black hooking onto it IIRC, under the driver seat.Usually gets corrosion in the solder joint, causing low voltage( i guess) at the locks.
Resolder
 
I think your prob is more involved though
 


Edited by Rebuild - 16 Oct 12 at 12:11
Steve
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chrisjoanne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 13:03
Cheers for posts...the central locking problem for the drivers door started the same day I changed the lock, so I don't think its any problems with corrosion under the seat. (I've read about the problems about the corrosion :-) ) However, I'm uncertain if corrosion is to blame for the problem with my electric doors.
Would any fault be shown on a diagnostics test?
Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 14:02
Hi Chris, haven't had much to do with electric doors but the bit the arrow is pointing at is just the bit that catches the lock.  Often called a striker plate.  If the whirring is coming from that area it is probably coming from the the motor (item 3).  By the looks of it that is the motor for the soft close mechanism.  Perhaps door 'doesn't know' what position it is in for some reason?
 
When you replaced the lock did you have the conv. unit under the seat disconnected?  If the sliding door problem only started when you did the driver's door lock it could be that the sliding door has lost its 'basic setting'.  You will need diagnostics if that what it is.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 14:22
Originally posted by T5 TDI T5 TDI wrote:

Hi Chris, haven't had much to do with electric doors but the bit the arrow is pointing at is just the bit that catches the lock.  Often called a striker plate.  If the whirring is coming from that area it is probably coming from the the motor (item 3).  By the looks of it that is the motor for the soft close mechanism.  Perhaps door 'doesn't know' what position it is in for some reason?
 
When you replaced the lock did you have the conv. unit under the seat disconnected?  If the sliding door problem only started when you did the driver's door lock it could be that the sliding door has lost its 'basic setting'.  You will need diagnostics if that what it is.   

Interesting post....I think the door doesn't know what position its in too - I disconnected the battery for 10 minutes yesterday to see if that would sort out the settings...it didn't.

You ask about the disconnection of the unit under the seat. I didn't do that! Would that cause my central locking settings to go pear shaped?
I'm a total DIYer for everything! (a decent one though)....be it house electrics/car problems/PC problems - I hate to pay for something if I can possibly do myself and work with trial and error Smile

However, it does look likely from what I reading here that I'm going to need to pay for a diagnostics test - I can't see what more I could try without going down that road. I know you can buy the Vagcom Cd's/cables for about £40 (don't know if thats ok to post on here...sorry if its not).....although a proper test carried out at VW is only £40 anyway Confused


Edited by chrisjoanne - 16 Oct 12 at 15:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 15:29
It would be worthwhile inspecting the crimped join in the wiring (the one under the driver's seat) as these are well known for causing all sorts of problems with central locking etc.  These sometimes don't show up on diagnostics either.  As you are a DIYer it might just fix the problem and save you money.

If you want to do your own diagnostics/settings in future you could consider VCDS (current version of VAGCOM), but the "real thing" will cost more than £40. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 15:29
The VCDS site has this page concerning 'initialization, http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/VW_Transporter_(7H/7J)_Slide_Door
It will be different on VW's diagnostic tool but it amounts to the same thing, but really the wiring or the conv unit itself could probably produce a similar fault.
 
Let us know how you get on so we can all learn...  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 15:36
Cheers for your insight and ideas.....I see how I get on at work tonight and take a look at the wiring tomorrow. Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 16:54
Hey look at the post time Greg. Great minds eh?  Or isn't the other half of that saying 'Fools seldom differ!'...  Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 12 at 23:05
Hey, we are just both helpful blokes Wink (some of the time, anyway).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 12 at 15:51
Quick update.....just got caravelle back from garage whereby the guy said it had "loads" of faults from the diagnostics test (door and engine). The door seems to be working fine (so far)....but the drivers door still has the fault. To rectify, the door has to be dismantled.
If the door shows signs of more problems I'll post back.
My mate did say it could be the sensor at the top of the door slider (said it produces 36volts ???)
Anyway....I'll see how things go over the next few days.
Cheers
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Onefut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 12 at 19:04
Check the top roller theres a sensor on there that sits on a plastic pivoting guide if its broke or wire dodgey then it wont know where it is
My cables rusted an snapped years ago an ive never got em replaced (cost too much) so just cut em out
The doors slide back an forth freely but the kids slammed the doors too hard one time and one of the sensors guides broke an sometimes the soft shut motors plays up
Worth a look see
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 12 at 11:47
Cheers Onefut...someone else has also said this could be the problem too. The problem has only happened a couple of times over the last 2 days (so it is still there).
I'm going to strip back and clean the sensor area and see if that sorts the problem out.
Forgot to add that this part/sensor cracked around 18 months ago when some idiot pushed my door outwards instead of sliding. The top "pivot guide" sensor popped out of the runner and cracked into two.
I glued it and put tape around which has caused no problem for a year and a half. It was suggested that rain may have got in and dampened the area causing the door to stop.
Things better but not quite right yet....fingers crossed the clean up will sort it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zedzedeleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 12 at 09:53
I think you should still check the convenience unit wiring under the seat, just for peace of mind, it`s a simple job to unwrap the cloth tape and have a look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 12 at 16:42
Hi...
Everything seems to be fine with the curb side door of late but unfortunately I had a complete idiot last night who nearly took the road side electric sliding door off its hinge and managed to totally break the door mechanism.
The cable looks as though its come out its casing - there was lots of crunching as the motor was trying to open/close door.
The only way I could close the door was to cut the cable.
Ive now got a manual door which will open/close and also lock into position when fully opened (ie not bouncing back).
What I would like to know is, what else do I need to do to make the doors fully manual. Is it just a case of taking the cabling off from the door to the motor. If this is correct, I might actually just take off the cable from the curb side door.
I had this problem under warranty a couple of times and I'm sure the job is about £300 or £400. However, the cables are about a quid on Ebay. I think it's possible to do a DIY job on the motor unit (connecting a cable). Obviously VW wouldn't do this and would buy the full motor which will be why its a £300 job.
Any advice on how to make the doors fully manual so I can stop stressing about them will be appreciated. I know its a Sunday and people will be chilling out, but I've got a taxi test on Tuesday and would love to get this sorted tomorrow. Smile
Cheers
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 12 at 17:28
How did you get on? If you want to keep the door manual I think I've seen it as an option that can be coded out with VCDS. By that I mean you can 'tell' the van that it doesn't have electric doors so it doesn't try and activate the motor.  I'm not sure but it's possible they can be coded individually so you could have the nearside one electric and the offside one manual.
.
I was cruising up the M5/M4 yesterday and I went past a T5 with a nice sticker on the side door that said something like 'This door is electrically operated, please wait'. You need one of those!


Edited by T5 TDI - 29 Oct 12 at 17:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisjoanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 12 at 09:09
I've got one of those T5 TDi! ....I can tell you that when someone has 10 pints down their neck they forget how to read or listen Smile

I passed the Taxi MOT test yesterday - the guy was obviously happy with the door being manual.
All I had done was dismantled the cable from the motor. The motor still sounds when you try and open and close the door but obviously doesn't do anything.

My job this week is to dismantle the curb side cable. I think the stress and problems the doors give me will just about disappear when both doors become manual.

So, anyone wanting to make an automatic door manual - take the side panel off, dismantle the motor, take cable out and your door is now a manual, stress free door. 1 hour job.

....Unless you fancy paying around £400 or so for a new motor and labour to keep your door automatic. Wink

Cheers for everyones thoughts and help on this. Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote STUMPINGTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 14:18
Not directly relavant to previous post, but there have been a number of posts about bounce back on the electric sliding doors. After trying many solutions I eventually found that the door was slightly out of alignment. Adjusted and cured.
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