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calling all mot testers. please read.

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..lee.. View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: calling all mot testers. please read.
    Posted: 17 Feb 12 at 20:47
hi guys, have just had my 5 yr refresher and gleened the info from the vosa trainer that windscreen damage no matter how large and no matter where it is placed is only a reason for rejection if is obstructs drivers view.

damage in excess of 40mm hidden from view by a factory fitted rear view mirror for example is not a fail.

i questioned this and both trainers are adamant that this is how vosa want us to interperate the wording.

i feel the wording can not be interperated in this manner by my mediocre brain.

opinions greatly recieved.

thanks lee.

i am now extreamly familier with section 8.3 inc rfr`s 1a to 1f. especially after this refresher.

i can honestly say with out any doubt that the trainers opinion was not missinterpreted by myself or the other nt`s on the course. being a tester for 16yrs+ and an ae for 11 yrs+ i pushed to clarify this point " and others " to the point of embarrasment on both partys.

i have now consulted 4 other experianced testers local to me and they also find it impossible to interpret what is written in section 8.3 in a way that supports what the vosa trainer was claiming.

so my postion seem to be.
A. ignore what we were told on our refresher course and test to the book as required. or
B. adopt the instructions given to us by the tutor and seamingly go against the directive of the testers manual.

i think i will continue to test in accordance with the manual untill we have written conformation via an update or SN to clarify this rule.

are there any VE on here who can either directly or indirectly support this information???

lee.

if anyone feels a read of section 8.3 of the testers manual would help. get reading !! i`d really aprieciate your views on this.

it`s a big round cage but there`s too many animals in it for my liking.to address this ring lee on 07977 765818.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 12 at 22:28
I think you are right to question this advice.  As a general rule I feel you are always on shaky grounds if you allow verbal instructions (without ANY official supporting documentation) to over-ride (rather than just clarify) the existing official documentation.

If it went to court/tribunal on appeal then surely the official documentation is the recognized authority.  One of the problems with verbal advice is that it can be retracted/changed or claimed you "misinterpreted what was said" after the event, leaving you high and dry.

Is there anyone who administrates/supports the official documentation that you can write to and get them to confirm/deny this particular trainer's advice ?


Edited by gregozedobe - 17 Feb 12 at 22:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baxter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 12 at 22:50
I'm so glad I don't MOT anymore.
Wish I had never got the ticket to be honest, constantly shit scared of being pulled up for something, always looking over your shoulder, hated it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 12 at 23:37
im doing my mot course next month...was a tester years ago and my boss is forcing me to do it again now...im going to be asking as many stupid questions as possible.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 12 at 23:40
Originally posted by max and caddy max and caddy wrote:

im doing my mot course next month......im going to be asking as many stupid questions as possible.  
 
 why dosnt that surprise us?
Www.justgiving.com/ELVIS-SUMMERS

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW master-tech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 12 at 23:43
I too have not long done my refreshers course and the same windscreen damage subject came up, from what we were told it is the "drivers veiw of the road" so they say only really covers any damage in swept area as any damage high up on the windscreen would be the "drivers veiw of the sky" sounds simple but still a very grey area and no definate right or wrong, i test by looking at the amount or sixe of the damage outside of the drivers veiw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 12 at 00:12
well i`ve sent an e-mail to the powers that be. i`ll wait and see what sort of reply i get. i`m not really bothered in testing the way i feel is right if the words fit and both myself and my other tester both agree on the exlanation and wording, but when i feel i`m told a total contradiction to what i feel is written i`ve got to have it clarified.

thanks for your comments guys.

lee.
it`s a big round cage but there`s too many animals in it for my liking.to address this ring lee on 07977 765818.
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..lee.. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 12 at 00:24
this is what i sent.


i would be very greatfull if i could have clarification on some items in the class 3,4,5, and 7 mot testers manual.
1. with regards to section "7.1.3"
please clarify if the "bet" test is classified as a " full cat emissions test" or is a " full catemissions test" as laid out in flow chart page 9, a " cat test using vehicle specific limits" and/or a "cat test useing default limits"
2.with regards to section "8.3.1"
is rfr 1.a ,1.b , 1d and 1e. a confirmed rfr regardless as to whether the drivers view of the road is "interfered" with, "obscured" or "seriously restricted"
3. in "appendix c item 10. Acceptable methods of repair"
is the "supportive panelling" or "supportive structure" within a prescribed area classified as a "sound part of a load bearing member"
many thanks lee heywood.

it`s a big round cage but there`s too many animals in it for my liking.to address this ring lee on 07977 765818.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lirch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 12 at 18:47
Originally posted by VW master-tech VW master-tech wrote:

I too have not long done my refreshers course and the same windscreen damage subject came up, from what we were told it is the "drivers veiw of the road" so they say only really covers any damage in swept area as any damage high up on the windscreen would be the "drivers veiw of the sky" sounds simple but still a very grey area and no definate right or wrong, i test by looking at the amount or sixe of the damage outside of the drivers veiw.
 
Having not carried out a test or seen a testing manual for a couple of years has it now been altered?
 
Cos that was always the case before.
 
 
Back off man! I'm a Scientist!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biker1941 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 12 at 22:00
hi guys
Whilst we are on MOTs what are the rules for towbars and their electrics
thanks
CB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 12 at 22:25
Originally posted by Biker1941 Biker1941 wrote:

hi guys
Whilst we are on MOTs what are the rules for towbars and their electrics
thanks
CB


http://www.motester.co.uk/CarOwnersGuidetoTheMOT/WhatIsTested.aspx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 12 at 00:01
their e mail back to me.

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 18th February 2012 concerning rule
clarification.

Q1.  MoI 7.1.3 has been amended to try to avoid this confusion.  The
amended Manual will be released in the spring at the same time as the new
components become testable.  The amended wording states:

  "On petrol engine vehicles that qualify for a full catalyst emissions
  test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.

  Note:  To ascertain whether a vehicle qualifies for a full catalyst
  test, use the flow charts in Section 7.3.C disregarding the result of
  the Basic Emissions Test."

Q2.  No - The driver's view of the road must be taken into account for all
RfRs in this Section.  Therefore, if there is damage or an obstruction
within the swept area which meets the fail criteria but is, for example,
behind the rear view mirror; or beyond which all that can be seen is the
bonnet; it is not to be considered a Reason for Rejection.

Q3.  If it is sound then yes.


I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.


i`ve mailed them again to make sure i got it right. " or beyond which all that can be seen is the
bonnet; " nice.

lee.
it`s a big round cage but there`s too many animals in it for my liking.to address this ring lee on 07977 765818.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZUB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 12 at 00:41
I test to the age old swept area bollocks, 40mm zone B 10mm zone A. Dont give a shite about whether its behind rear view mirror or not, because  im testing the vehicle not the driver i.e. drivers come in different sizes ! a shortarse may see the damage while a giant may not see said damage behind rear view mirror. If you go by the book no worries. I stick to reasons for rejection. Piece of piss. Zubs mate. (zubs a thick fuck !)
I'm a bell end
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZUB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 12 at 00:46

Yep, thats right I've actually got a friend 


you lot any happier ???? 
I'm a bell end
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dansimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 12 at 11:04
" i`ve mailed them again to make sure i got it right. " or beyond which all that can be seen is the
bonnet; " nice."

Does this end up being a bit subjective, depending on how tall you are, or how high yer driving sitting position is, if youget a really short tester, or the seat is dropped right down, then there will be a greater area of the screen that "all you can see is the bonnet". Not too critical for T3's, but other vehicles with long bonnets......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreamcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 12 at 12:32
Hi Guys
I don't want to piss on anyones parade, but I have spent a lifetime of interpreting statutory regulations and took enjoyment from it. The views that a lot of you are expressing, ie. go by the written word is how a lot of my collegues operated, but the minister does expect a bit of common sense and flexability. I always taught my trainees to look for the "spirit of the regulation"
Surley, the  intention is for a driver to have a clear view of the road from his seated position without any defects in his line of vision  that may impair his ability to drive safely whether they are tall or short.
It seems to me that if the driver was so short that they could see a defect behind the rear view mirror, missing seeing a low flying aircraft could be the least of their problems 
Ermm
 
Dave 1991 LT31 Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZUB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 12 at 21:20

as you'd expect from me, I don't give a flying feck Wink


oh, my mates a caant 
I'm a bell end
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