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buying a house with a back boiler

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Vanorak
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    Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 14:06
 
we are buying a house that has a baxi back boiler fitted. its quite old and has been marked in the home buyers report as "working"  but hard to get bits for and costly to repair.
 
looking at info on the internet.... Confused god there is so much..
it would be worth updating/replacing.
 
one of the bigger problems is the boiler is in the living room so if we change it its going to have to go to the kitchen as i would like to get it out of the living room.
this in turn i think is going to end up with half the system changing at least because there would need to be a fair bit of pipework doing..
 
i father said it may be worth looking at fitting a boiler in the loft, this could work well as would require less pipework  (in effect a new boiler would be just two floors up verticaly from where it is now. the current hot water tank is in the room above the boiler directly above so alot of the current system could be reworked to go with a new boiler.
 
any idears?'
 
anyone know if we could get any kind of grant towards changing the boiler to a more modern more eco friendly one??
 
on another note... anyone here with solar panel experience as its something we really want to look into.. the house has a good size south facing garden 
we really want to look into solar power in the future..
 
 
 
WHY T3's.... because they are just so adictive, and having one just aint enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 18:09
If you can tell me the model of back boiler, I can tell you the truth on parts availability. Unless its truly ancient, you'll be ok. Generally they are a very reliable boiler. It will cost a fair bit of money to move the boiler anywhere. I did a replacement recently, and fitted the boiler in the loft. This is probably easiest option, but you still need to get a gas pipe up there.
It's not heavily advertised, but you can buy a new baxi back boiler (it's a condensing boiler) but it is very expensive, it works out cheaper to move the boiler. But sometimes there is no other option
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev The Gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 19:49
Ditch the back boiler, boilers that last over 15 years are no good for the economy or gas engineers pimped T5 modifications.

Saying that I cant see a new Baxi condensing back boiler lasting 5 years, best bet move the boiler.

Beware tho a combi in the loft will waste a lot of water to get hot to the kitchen ( in a house )

I install Solar thermal, costs a few £££ tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 19:52
Originally posted by Kev The Gas Kev The Gas wrote:

Ditch the back boiler, boilers that last over 15 years are no good for the economy or gas engineers pimped T5 modifications.

Saying that I cant see a new Baxi condensing back boiler lasting 5 years,
Kev.


Couldn't agree less with that remark
.
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,
1year at the most
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Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev The Gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 20:28
Im the positive gas man !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev The Gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 20:29
Im the positive gas man !


T5.1 T32 LWB Kombi 140 ps. Sold

T5.1 Caravelle Executive 2.0BiTDI
180PS DSG Sold

T5.1 Kombi LWB 180 BiTDI DSG   

T6 California Beach 150 DSG
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 13 at 21:54
How does a back boiler work and why is it so pricey? I only know of them in the back of fire places and wood stoves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vaniller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 08:33
Look at the 'Green Deal' for loans. You pay back out of your savings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syncost Alot. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 08:57

I'm moving house & have got a south-facing roof. Solar guy told me........... £4K for 4kw, fully installed. Sound good?

A back boiler? Is that the same as an Aga? Cook & heat radiators?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 09:06
Originally posted by Vaniller Vaniller wrote:

Look at the 'Green Deal' for loans. You pay back out of your savings.

Or don't - have been looking at this closely and have done the assessment course, too many issues with it and the loan rate is going to be around 8%, it's def not a grant, basically just an expensive loan...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 10:12
A baxi back boiler is basically a open flue boiler that sits in your fireplace, a gas fire then sits in front of it and shares the same flue. All you see is the gas fire. Millions of them fitted, people who have them, love them. They are just not that efficient compared to a new condensing boiler. But if you take into consideration the 3-4k cost to move the boiler ect, your best off keeping it if it's working well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 12:42
Originally posted by Syncost Alot. Syncost Alot. wrote:

I'm moving house & have got a south-facing roof. Solar guy told me........... £4K for 4kw, fully installed. Sound good?

A back boiler? Is that the same as an Aga? Cook & heat radiators?


That price would be a steal over here. Hope is isn't a ship panel. ask for a name brand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 12:45
Originally posted by lloydy lloydy wrote:

A baxi back boiler is basically a open flue boiler that sits in your fireplace, a gas fire then sits in front of it and shares the same flue. All you see is the gas fire. Millions of them fitted, people who have them, love them. They are just not that efficient compared to a new condensing boiler. But if you take into consideration the 3-4k cost to move the boiler ect, your best off keeping it if it's working well.


That's what I thought. I was looking for one for my old coal fireplace. I would put up a new SS insulated chimney for it.

I used to put in a number of Baxi condensing boiler but I hate the heat exchangers which is why I still advise on Viessmann. I don't know the cost comparison over there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 13:15
Originally posted by Canada LT28 Canada LT28 wrote:

Originally posted by Syncost Alot. Syncost Alot. wrote:

I'm moving house & have got a south-facing roof. Solar guy told me........... £4K for 4kw, fully installed. Sound good?

A back boiler? Is that the same as an Aga? Cook & heat radiators?


That price would be a steal over here. Hope is isn't a ship panel. ask for a name brand

Solar PV panel prices have been plummeting recently as the chinese ramp up production


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tardis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 13:48
Our previous house had a baxi back boiler when we moved in, lived there for 10 years and all it had was routine service every year by BG. Moved house in August to one with a combi boiler that was 6 month old and it's already broken down once. Glad it was still under warranty Smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frostbus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 17:26
it cost me £2,500 to have a boiler fitted upstairs but ended up replacing whole system much neater and less fuss than adapting old system
 got our grant as our old boiler was nowhere near efficient enough boiler scrappage at that time was £400
 
bought our house 4 years ago wife loved it i could only see work involved
bought it bending over backwards to sell ours for less than it was worth.
paid over the odds for a house that needed extensive renovation
wife me and three kids lived in front room for four months!
its lovely now but i wont make mistake again (done it  twiceEmbarrassed)

go back to seller and explain you want more money off to replace boiler !

good luck


Edited by frostbus - 17 Feb 13 at 17:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3ADICT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 13 at 21:35
 
we are getting the house at a reasonable price.
it will need some work but we "could" live in it as it is.
 (our last rented house was only just better condition)
 
we are going to see if there is anything to deal on re the boiler.
 
the other thing i need to look into is getting rid of the roof on the large shed next to the house as its low danger asbestos.. the shed needs to be moved / removed
there is also some of the same of the same roof down the end of the garden.
 
 
WHY T3's.... because they are just so adictive, and having one just aint enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 13 at 10:02
Originally posted by Tardis Tardis wrote:

Our previous house had a baxi back boiler when we moved in, lived there for 10 years and all it had was routine service every year by BG. Moved house in August to one with a combi boiler that was 6 month old and it's already broken down once. Glad it was still under warranty Smile


Not so much a back boiler vs combi thing, as an old low-tech vs modern computerised singing dancing thing.

Not so much different to T3 vs T5, if you want... Efficient, until the computer sulks.

Our (Worcester Bosch) Combi was replaced just before condensing became more-or-less compulsory - we were told "Do it now, make sure you get a non-condensing" by everybody at the time. And I'm bloody glad. OK, it's slightly less efficient, but it's been reliable. Not 100%, but damn good.

BG's service/maintenance contract's been worthwhile for us - £15/month heads out by DD, and for that we get an annual service plus quick response to any problems that do happen. Last time they came out, it was dripping a bit of water. Turned out to need a new heat exchanger due to a cracked weld. Parts & fitting paid for within the £15/month...

Just to divert the subject a bit - while we were away, our tenants seem to have let a minor problem slip - the hot water seems to come through FAR too fast, so if you open the hot tap more than a bit, you get cold water, because it's flowing through too quickly to heat up. Is this likely to be some kind of failed control valve internally, or is it just that some numpt's turned the stop valve wide open instead of using it to restrict the pressure?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 13 at 10:22
Originally posted by Vaniller Vaniller wrote:

Look at the 'Green Deal' for loans. You pay back out of your savings.
 
Sorry this ain't positive,"Green Elephant!"
 
The Green Deal is the biggest waste of tax payers money ever! Its the Green Elephant!
 
Problems as below
 
1. A loan at 8%! Mortage is 2.5 -3%.
 
2. A personal loan is cheaper and not stuck with ya house if you go to sell it.
 
3. A total muppet comes out who  has never worked in the heating/services industry who has done a 2 day course to charge you to look at the property and tell you were you can save. Based on his guess you get a loan which should be paid for by the savings. Who do the legal sharks sue after PPI is exhausted the assessor or the installer?
 
4. We the pipe monkeys have to squander a fortune to get  accredited by pen pushing arseholes who don't know the difference between a solar panel and a double glazing panel, unvented hot water cylinder or gas boiler.
 
5. The heavy additional costs get added on and charged to you which you are putting on fianance.
 
6. The only winners in Green deal is the finance providers and the accreditation bodies, manfacturers, installers, customers are all net losers, they all end up paying.
 
7. The saving don't stack up who's fault, installation, assessor or customer not using it right? Who's going to get it in the ass? Your stuck with the loan and still out of pocket.
 
8. The loan period exceeds the warranty of the gear, other gas/plumbers all know different manfacturers warranty policies differ from excellent to can't see the deivery vans tail lights, warranty expired. I can name brands.
 
9. Ambush sales, flog cheap crap, designed to fail, when it fails you are going to be bled dry for spares to try to keep it going to make some savings. Why do the manfacturers not have to offer a warranty to last the term of the loan?
 
10. Examples are,
 
PV during their life the cells degrade and loose out put, first couple of years no problem, but what about year 5 on? What about replacement inverter costs? Will these inverters still be available in ten years or will it be a butchery job to get another to fit as the manfacturer has moved out of it as the Green Deal failed. Have these been factored in, we are all seeing the PFI programmes starting to leave the rails due to poor projections and cost over runs.
 
Solar hot water (I have it myself) For me pay back has been five years but I got it at trade and fitted it myself no accreditaion crap, but the pump will die eventually and the system requires maintenance annually. If I had it done by others pay back woould have been around 11 years well outside panel warranty and pump warranty.
 
11. Us in the trade have seen Low Carbon Buiding Programme, killed off, Renewables Energy Ireland Association killed off all which cost a couple of grand to join thrown in the bin and now Green Deal Renewable Heat Initative, just another scam to fleece the trade.
 
12. We don't see joiners having to register to fit insulation, we don't see plasters having to register to apply insulation plaster but plumber and sparks are seen as a golden goose. 
 
Back to the Baxi BBU, Still one of the most reliable products Baxi made by the Baxi Family when they owned the firm before Venture C**ts screwed it up. Ok not top efficiency.
 
Anything Baxi post 97 poor quality, 105e and 105e instant not bad but still had faults.
 
The Government and all the magzines for the trade have been flogging this dead horse for years, it should be in a Findus product and on a Tesco shelf by now, they will never publish anything that criticises it.
 
Trade bodies also don't approve.
 
Wait and see it on Watchdog.
 
Why do you think the Government is pushing TESCO, Sainsbury, John Lewis into it as the trade has walked away. I last checked there was only 4 registered in NI to do it and only in limited sections, for us it does not add up.
 
Giant Goverment backed scam, just like penisons to fill Bankers and city types pockets from yours.
 
Zero rate vat on installation of energy efficient boilers and heating controls which offer 5 year or more warranty, zero rate vat on insulation. Charge the vat at 20% on purchase and tax paying companys then claim the vat back and deliver it at 0% vat.
 
Fixed low cost loan for efficiency upgrades like a fixed term mortage
 
 


Edited by Alonline - 19 Feb 13 at 10:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 13 at 10:36
Originally posted by AdrianC AdrianC wrote:

Originally posted by Tardis Tardis wrote:

Our previous house had a baxi back boiler when we moved in, lived there for 10 years and all it had was routine service every year by BG. Moved house in August to one with a combi boiler that was 6 month old and it's already broken down once. Glad it was still under warranty Smile


Not so much a back boiler vs combi thing, as an old low-tech vs modern computerised singing dancing thing.

Not so much different to T3 vs T5, if you want... Efficient, until the computer sulks.

Our (Worcester Bosch) Combi was replaced just before condensing became more-or-less compulsory - we were told "Do it now, make sure you get a non-condensing" by everybody at the time. And I'm bloody glad. OK, it's slightly less efficient, but it's been reliable. Not 100%, but damn good.

BG's service/maintenance contract's been worthwhile for us - £15/month heads out by DD, and for that we get an annual service plus quick response to any problems that do happen. Last time they came out, it was dripping a bit of water. Turned out to need a new heat exchanger due to a cracked weld. Parts & fitting paid for within the £15/month...

Just to divert the subject a bit - while we were away, our tenants seem to have let a minor problem slip - the hot water seems to come through FAR too fast, so if you open the hot tap more than a bit, you get cold water, because it's flowing through too quickly to heat up. Is this likely to be some kind of failed control valve internally, or is it just that some numpt's turned the stop valve wide open instead of using it to restrict the pressure?
 
Second part of last sentence is correct. If you have good pressure then the flow rate can exceed the boiler capacity. I don't know if you are in a hard water area as this also could cause the same problem but the boiler would start to sound unhappy.
 
Hope it helplsSmile
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