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Audi/Passat 2 litre engine

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Garyd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Dec 09 at 19:05

Hi,
I am contemplating converting my diesel syncro to petrol by installing a combination of VW 1.8 and two litre parts. Current thinking is a two litre block with the MkII Golf GTi head.

I have a 1.8 GTi engine but I am trying to source an Audi 80 2 litre engine from the late 80's ('3A' engine code) as this will give better low revs torque. Failing that, it will have to be a '2E' or 'AGG' engine from the early and late MkIII Golfs respectively. These engines were increased from 1.8 to 2.0 by having a wider bore (3A) or longer stroke. An AGG inlet manifold is also said to give more (sufficient?) clearance against the side of the engine bay / chassis rail.

Has anyone any experience of such a conversion that can offer any advice or first hand knowledge of the performance of said combination engine in T3?

thanks
Garyd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jason k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 09 at 19:59
iirc the south african 2.0 vans had just such a motor from the factory
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3ADICT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 09 at 23:17
yep im putting a 2.0L audi 80 engine in my caravelle..
take care with what audi lump you get as some have changes to the offside enine mount holes..
 
im just going to use the audi lump complete with the head thats on it, with late mk2 golf gti injection system
 
WHY T3's.... because they are just so adictive, and having one just aint enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote finnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 09 at 18:56
would this engine fit straight on the bell housing ? or what mods is needed .
You hear and see lots of 1.8 gti conversion .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jason k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 09 at 20:28
diesel parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michael rodent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 09 at 06:50
Originally posted by Garyd Garyd wrote:


Hi,
I am contemplating converting my diesel syncro to petrol by installing a combination of VW 1.8 and two litre parts. Current thinking is a two litre block with the MkII Golf GTi head.

I have a 1.8 GTi engine but I am trying to source an Audi 80 2 litre engine from the late 80's ('3A' engine code) as this will give better low revs torque. Failing that, it will have to be a '2E' or 'AGG' engine from the early and late MkIII Golfs respectively. These engines were increased from 1.8 to 2.0 by having a wider bore (3A) or longer stroke. An AGG inlet manifold is also said to give more (sufficient?) clearance against the side of the engine bay / chassis rail.

Has anyone any experience of such a conversion that can offer any advice or first hand knowledge of the performance of said combination engine in T3?

thanks
Garyd
 
The small plenum inlet manifold from the AGG is the ONLY manifold that will not hit the chassis rail  with the engine over at 50 degrees as in the deisel.
You cannot use the Mk2 head as the manifold from an AGG will not bolt up (injectors in the head on the Mk2, in the manifold on the 2E/AGG/3A, inlet port shapes are very different so manifold mating area is very different.)
If you use the Mk2 head and therefore its inlet manifold you will need a big lump hammer to bastardise the LHS of the engine bay down by the chassis rail.
The Audi 3A has the right head to fit the AGG inlet manifold, and has the same size valves and very similar porting to the Mk2 GTI head.
Just swap cams, but I am pretty sure they are also the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michael rodent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 09 at 06:55
Originally posted by jason k jason k wrote:

iirc the south african 2.0 vans had just such a motor from the factory
 
No, VW SA only ever sold a Golf engine'd 1.8 litre carb'd version.
The aftermarket produced 2.0l 4 cylinder injected conversions.
Then there was of course the 2.3, 2.5 and 2.6 5 cylinder factory versions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michael rodent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 09 at 07:06
Originally posted by Garyd Garyd wrote:

 These engines were increased from 1.8 to 2.0 by having a wider bore (3A) or longer stroke.
Has anyone any experience of such a conversion that can offer any advice or first hand knowledge of the performance of said combination engine in T3?

thanks
Garyd
 
3A/2E/AGG all have a 82.5 bore, 92.8mm crank stroke.
3A has shorter rods and therefore a shorter block. (16mm shorter than the 2E/AGG) 
Performance of any of these is OK, not startling, but compared to a deisel much better.
Fuel consumption would typically be around 10-11 l/100k's.
Thats what I regularily achieved anyway.
An Audi 2.8 V6 goes much better!Smile
 


Edited by michael rodent - 17 Dec 09 at 07:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 09 at 16:41
Thanks for all that, Michael.

I am understanding two 'recommended' options.

Firstly the Audi 3A engine but fitted with the MKII GTi cam and the AGG inlet manifold. (possibly needing a 2E distributor - or is the 3A one OK?)

Secondly, the AGG or 2E engine fitted with MKII cam, AGG manifold and 2E distributor.

Can the digifant injection rail be fitted to the AGG manifold in either case?

You have said that the torque is developed lower in the rev range with the shorter 3A engine but is there likely to be much difference between the two options? I am currently having no success finding a 3A engine but AGGs seem to be fairly plentiful. Being newer they are also perhaps likely to be in better condition.

Dp you think there would be any advantage in trying to modify the AGG manifold to take the twin barrel MKII throttle body? I am thinking that the first (small) barrel could be more fuel efficient on light throttle openings.

thanks
Garyd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michael rodent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 09 at 18:42
Originally posted by Garyd Garyd wrote:

Thanks for all that, Michael.

I am understanding two 'recommended' options.

Firstly the Audi 3A engine but fitted with the MKII GTi cam and the AGG inlet manifold. (possibly needing a 2E distributor - or is the 3A one OK?)

Secondly, the AGG or 2E engine fitted with MKII cam, AGG manifold and 2E distributor.

Can the digifant injection rail be fitted to the AGG manifold in either case?

You have said that the torque is developed lower in the rev range with the shorter 3A engine but is there likely to be much difference between the two options? I am currently having no success finding a 3A engine but AGGs seem to be fairly plentiful. Being newer they are also perhaps likely to be in better condition.

Dp you think there would be any advantage in trying to modify the AGG manifold to take the twin barrel MKII throttle body? I am thinking that the first (small) barrel could be more fuel efficient on light throttle openings.

thanks
Garyd
3A distributor will work, it is the same as the 2E and later Mk2 digifant disrtributors. Just has the hall pick up inside and a 4 slot rotor.
The 2E and AGG will run smoother than the 3A, apparently because of the longer rods, hence the reason VW did this. The 3A , being shorter will give you that much more clearance to the LH side/chassis of the engine bay.
Having not compared the 3A and 2E/AGG back to back I cannot say if there is much difference low down, but technically there should be.  In the real world? Who knows if it really makes a seat of the pants difference.
I used a Mk2 digifant fuel rail on my 2E conversion, mounted in the AGG inlet manifold, however it required mounting fabrication and the fuel inlet and return were not in the optimum place.
I have since looked at the fuel rail off a 1992-1994 Audi 80 2.0l ABK engine code, and this would seem to be ideal.
I also think the AGG fuel rail would be fine, I was just paranoid that the injectors were different. i.e impedance, etc.
I do not actually think this this would be an issue in reality
I cannot quite remember why I did not use the 2E fuel rail, after all the 2E is also digifant. Maybe fitment issues to the AGG inlet manifold?
I am presuming you want to stick with Digifant injection and management?
If not I would just go AGG with all the injection/management parts from that.
The only reason I did not do this is because of my Dutch genes. i.e. too tight to spend the moneySmile
 
 
 
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