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88' Doka 'stalling'? no idea what the problem is

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Doka_time View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Feb 17 at 16:25
Hi all,

New here - looking for some help to diagnose the problem with the 88 doka (a.k.a. double cab pickup) we just purchased.

Problem
When driving engine power will drop off to where we feel it slowing quickly, sometimes it feels jerky or hesitating.  The engine will stay running as long as the accelerator (pedal) is pressed, but if I pop it out of gear, the engine dies.  I have come to a rolling stop, and simply started it up again with no issue ... really confusing.

Some days it runs fine, other days there are issues.  Sometimes it starts happening within 10 minutes, sometime after 3 hours of driving.

Specs:
1988 T3 double cab pickup 'doka'
turbo diesel engine - type is a "JX": inline 4, 1600cc (70bhp)

Thanks in advance for your help!
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rowlesy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 17 at 20:11
id have a look at the intake side of things. split hose or a vacuum pipe moving around mebe? or even crappy earth on the engine causing stop solenoid to stay shut? purely a guess! diesels tend to run no-matter what so could only be fuel or air......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 15:31
Thanks Rowlesy.  I have taken a look around.  Nothing I can see wrong.  I took out the air filter, nothing too bad there.  Inspected all vacuum pipes and hoses.  Nothing there either.  At first I thought it was the ground too, so I sanded down the ground and the contacts for the ground, but there is still the issues.  This was the main ground from the battery pole to the chassis - is there another ground I should be looking for?

Also where is the 'stop solenoid'?

I took some pics if you want to look.



Thanks again - I am up for all suggestions.



Edited by Doka_time - 18 Apr 17 at 08:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote booted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 16:03
have you checked the turbo pipes for air leaks?
wouldn't hurt to change the fuel filter and check the leak off pipes on the injectors as these can split and cause air leaks although in my experience more likely to make it harder to start
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jaber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 20:49
Check for water in y fuel had the same issue albeit mine was petrol!

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 21:33
looking at the engine its in good shape - im leaning more to that stop solenoid tho the way the power tails off but comes back as soon as its turned back on - ooh thats got me thinking of the igniton switch too now! stop solenoid is just at the back of the fuel pump with one wire to it. i'd guess its a switched live as the engine will be earthed. 
basically you turn on your ignition and the solenoid opens (lets diesel thru) when you turn off ignition it shuts it off (stops diesel flow and stops engine running)
i would say it runs when in gear as your forcing the engine to turn but not powering anything.
start her up and see if you can make it happen by wiggling the keys around? dont turn them just wiggle up and down and side to side and in and out. and while we're talking keys do you have many on the keyring? sometimes its all it takes........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 16:45
Hi All,

Thanks for helping out - here are my replies (all in one)

booted: The vehicle is starting just fine ... and upon inspection I don't see any issues with any of the hoses or injectors - see the pics above - the guy I bought it off replaced all of these.

jaber: re: water in the diesel. I was considering that, but I wondered why I could drive it for a long time and suddenly it would start happening.  Also, if it is happening, I can pull over, shut it down for a short time, and when I get back on the road it is gone (for a while).  Although, I notice that it might be associated with the rain.  Let's say it is water in the fuel ... is there an additive for diesel ... how might I diagnose that problem to be sure that was it? 

rowlesy: I did the 'wiggle keys' test you suggested ... I don't know if the test was definitive.   I have attached the image below to help:


I started the diesel engine, and wiggled the keys (in position 2).  When I wiggle them enough so that the key turns a small amount (like 10 degrees) towards position 1 the engine stops.  When the real thing happens, it starts by the vehicle losing horsepower (not to be confused with electrical power), and sometimes jerking/stalling. I was doing the test with the vehicle idling and stopped.

Is there anyway I can diagnose the problem when it happens?  Maybe attach a wire to the solenoid so I can monitor the voltage to it while I am driving?  I will certainly be checking if the keys are not in the right position - we do have a bunch of keys on the key ring ..... hummmm.  will get back to you.  I will try the wiggle test while cruzing down the highway next time. ... safely.

Thanks again to all!  keep the ideas coming!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 20:32
Take the ignition cluster plug off and drive with it hot wired to bypass switch?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GavB95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 17 at 12:28
It sounds like air getting into the fuel lines to me, I had similar on my van and it gradually got worse until the pump became completely air locked. 

If it is air you'll be getting small bubbles drawing up the line between the fuel filter and the pump, when they're only small they'll pass through without you noticing. As the air builds up you'll get a bigger bubble that causes the symptoms you describe - ie loss of power under load that seems to clear itself whilst you have pressure on the pedal. 

Check the fuel line for bubbles whilst idling and also whilst someone applies pressure to the pedal. 

Edit - I've just seen your pics, you really could do with a clear line on the feed to the pump to check for air, but the worm drive clips you have on the hose unions are no good for small diameters, they oval and don't keep pressure evenly applied on the hose. You could do with replacing them all with this type of clip:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 17 at 19:17
Mine to ran fine and was rain related although it was a new tank turned out it was the overflow from filler neck around the rubber pipe top the clip was tight but the pipe over the years had become hard, forming a perfect funnel shape, so the water coming off the front wheel went directly down the filler neck into the tank, if you can turn the pipe or move it then you have a problem, drain some diesel directly from your outlet into a clear jug and look for water droplets, yes you will have to bleed the air out but you may have crossed something off your list.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 17 at 16:33
Hi All,

Again, thank you so much for all the advice.

I am both going to check for water in the tank and fix the fuel line clips.  I will keep you updated.  A couple of quick questions:

1) is there a drain on the tank on the bottom where the water would collect?

2) if there was water in the diesel (or if air is getting into the fuel line) is there any explanation for why the doka shows these symptoms on some drives and not others?  it is very sporadic ...

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 17 at 19:38
No drain but there is a small swirl chamber at the bottom check the filter for water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 17:19
ok, about to remove fuel filter to look for water, in the meantime here is a pic of the filler neck.



Edited by Doka_time - 18 Apr 17 at 08:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 17 at 19:16
Missing the jubilee clip - water can get thrown up there! Any splits?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jaber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 17 at 06:29
Yep missing jubilee clip on the fuel return pipe👁
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 17 at 08:48
Thanks - on it.  ... just to be completely clear here is a picture showing where I am going to use the jubilee clips (red lines)



Edited by Doka_time - 18 Apr 17 at 08:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bromy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 17 at 13:19
Dont think there ever was a clip on the lower one its got a kinda rubber bush fitting iirc usually cracked/perished so wouldnt be a bad thing replacing - brickwerks sell em
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 17 at 09:11
OK.  Just to keep everything updated:  I put the jubilee clip on the filler neck, and the problem went away ... for a while.  now it is back.  Here are my working hypotheses:

1) water got into the diesel from the above mentioned filler neck issue - and while I may have solved the problem of how it got in, there is still water in the tank getting into the engine from time to time - causing the loss of power.

2) air is getting into the fuel line and causing the loss of power.  This is why I am working on replacing the clips as per GavB95's suggestion above.  Unfortunately, I think I bought them too big, and will have to find smaller ones.  

Do either of these ideas sound right to you?

I will mention that when there is a problem (significant loss of power) if I turn the Doka off and wait a minute or two, and then start up again, that the problem goes away (for a while).  Hope that helps.

Again, thanks all for your help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jaber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 17 at 21:29
Drain the tank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doka_time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 14:39
OK, just put in some chemical to help with the water problem ... I will see if it still hesitates.  I was going to re-do the clamps on the fuel line, but if I did, I wouldn't be able to know what the problem was (I need closure on this!)

I will keep you updated.
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