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'81 aircooled overheating ??????? |
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edweed 
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 Topic: '81 aircooled overheating ???????Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 17:00 |
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Hi,
This is my first post here as ive only recently bought my '81 aircooled joker, (after wanting one since I was a kid!), and having only paid 3k for it Im being told it was a sound deal
 .Anyway, its just had a full service and runs no probs.....until it gets really warm and then on heavy acceleration it starts to judder, as if there was a fuel problem, but the more i ease off the accelrator the less judder I get. It will still pick up 'speed' but this juddering from the engine is a real pain
 .Ive just dropped the petrol tank out as it was full of water from a split in the top of the filler cap and had taken a load in over the years which I thought could have been the cause its still doing it!
Can anyone out there help with any ideas or ways to eliminate the possible cause!
Also, when the engine is really hot and i tr to restart I can turn the key and the van is dead - nothing happens at all! I turn of and try again and the van burst to life!!! Is this normal?
Finally, it also has reall bad pre-ignitionwhen very hot which is just a bit embarressing - how can i stop that?
Thanks in advance........cheers, Eddie.
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jason k
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twinklerims Joined: 14 Jan 05 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 15934 |
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Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 17:33 |
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right first things first
you will prob need to change the fuel filter and clean out the carbs if water has been in there. they (assuming you still have twin solex) will be full of shit.
then check if all the tinware and the engine seal are there?? if not that wont help for a start.
the judder could be fuel or overheating or a dicky dis unit. undo the two plugs from the black unit towards the front left hand side of the engine bay plugs and join em together. see if this helps.
try these and let us know how your getting on!!!
also have you checked the timimng
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lambretta lee
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Joined: 14 Oct 06 Location: Oxfordshire Status: Offline Points: 1714 |
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Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 18:46 |
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Also, when the engine is really hot and i tr to restart I can turn the key and the van is dead - nothing happens at all! I turn of and try again and the van burst to life!!! Is this normal? our old air cooled did this, if i remember correctly there is a brass bush that fits inside the housing for the starter motor shaft ,this expands when hot, and causes the starter to jam solid for a time , or it could be a bad earth... or a million other things
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JeepHour
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Posted: 05 Sep 08 at 07:25 |
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Hot start problems.
If the problem goes away when you wait (cool it down) Yes it is a known problem (rumor has it it still exists in VAG land) look here - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2593146 or google "vw hot start relay" for endless other descriptions. If it goes away immediately (still hot) see lambretta lee post BTW I'm with jason on overheating - your first stop is tinware and seals, next timing. I'm convinced everything is right with my engine (expect tinware) and it overheats given any chance. It'll climb M-way/Trunk Road hills at 70mph easily but will happily destroy itself in the process. The pre-ignition when hot symptom is very scary - one step away from High Speed Detonation(HSD) . Read this http://www.3si.org/forum/f103/detonation-vs-pre-ignition-281822/ It's relevant to all engines. HSD will destroy your cylinder heads and pistons. This is bitter experience talking. Here's an instant fix - drive slower and change down earlier climbing hills. |
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Hussar!
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edweed
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Posted: 03 Oct 08 at 09:36 |
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hi again, ive just realised that ive had a few replies to my initial message - thought id get an email through to let me know!!!
anyway, ive had a full service now, new plugs, ht leads, fuel filters, air filters and even had the carbs apart and cleaned out and all seemed much better, (not perfect though!), until last weekend when i took it for a blat down to Devon and it seemed to be holding back on the excellaration - it still picked up but more slowly and a little hesitant.....?!?!?! now what?
I also have the problem with the van sometimes doing nothing when i try to start the van after a hot run! turn off, then turn on and off she goes....is this healthy! Still got really bad pre-ignition though......
any thoughts guys..........?
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gunnerheard
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Posted: 03 Oct 08 at 12:49 |
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I have an aircooled with the same situation and is a common fault as mentioned earlier, without going into the ins and outs the cable loses resistance when the engine gets hot therefore doesn't have the guts to deliver the power needed for the starter; best thing is to wait 5 to 10mins or else you can rewire with relays circuit
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Do farts ave lumps in em?
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gunnerheard
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Posted: 03 Oct 08 at 12:50 |
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Also have you considered the judder may be down to faulty fuel pump ? should be a mechanical type on that one !
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Do farts ave lumps in em?
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jason k
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twinklerims Joined: 14 Jan 05 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 15934 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 08 at 12:56 |
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is all the tinware and engine seal present???
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Bcs shallowest surf award winner 2006
camperjam 2011 chug and tug team member aberdare. south wales newest member of karmann korner no longer the only moderator to manage to ban himself |
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edweed
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Posted: 03 Oct 08 at 14:09 |
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Hi, ive no idea what you mean by the 'tinware'? where is this located and what does it consist of? also, what does it do.....?
just spoken with a mate whos got a 2.1i California about the timing - he agrees it could be way off the mark and causingallsorts of problems. Does anyone know how it should be setup...advanced/retarded by how many degrees?
regarding the cable...ive got acess to tons of military spec cable...should i consider re- wiring parts of the system, and if so which lengths?
cheers everyone for the advice so far.....
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edweed
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Posted: 03 Oct 08 at 14:12 |
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(...also, how do i get a pic in my profile - to the left of this message?)
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jason k
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Posted: 05 Oct 08 at 16:23 |
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[QUOTE=edweed]Hi, ive no idea what you mean by the 'tinware'? where is this located and what does it consist of? also, what does it do.....?
/QUOTE]
tinware is what keeps your engine from overheating it surrounds it and has pieces fitted underneath, the cooling air is ducted around the tinware keeping the cylinder heads etc cool. you need to get your hands on a haynes manual specifically for an aircooled t3 and make sure every single piece is there, also the engine bay seal must be present or otherwise you will kill your engine.
the book will also give the timing settings and how to disconnect the dis and vaccumes to ensure the timing is correctly adjusted.
its the best 12 quid you will spend.
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edweed
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Posted: 05 Oct 08 at 20:15 |
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i got a haynes manual and a strobe gun and sorted the timing yesterday - it was way...way out! the engine now starts first time, runs more smoothly and pulls more stronger through the lower gears. it also seems to have got rid of the crappy pre-ignition! regards the tinware - i will have a look underneith later in the week and see whats missing.the engine seal is pretty much present, however there are few places where it appears to have dropped - probably a total of about 6 inches worth in total in 2 or 3 places, is this a problem?
whilst i was mooching about the engine bay yesterday i saw a a very badly split rubber hose right at the back of the bus, below the back door and set slightly to the right which to be connected to the alternator - any idea what this is about?
cheers.
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jason k
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Posted: 05 Oct 08 at 22:17 |
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aye even six inches missing will allow warm air in and cause trouble.
no idea as to the tube. can you put a pic up??
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Bcs shallowest surf award winner 2006
camperjam 2011 chug and tug team member aberdare. south wales newest member of karmann korner no longer the only moderator to manage to ban himself |
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edweed
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Posted: 06 Oct 08 at 08:28 |
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morning,
ok so how does the rubber engine seal work? i would have thought that the whole engine gets hot when running and having the seal broken would allow some airflow in? Or is most of th heat emitted from the bottom of the engine.....? Confusing!
How can i post a picture of the perished hose?
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frag
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Posted: 06 Oct 08 at 09:27 |
The engine on your van is cooled by air blown (by the fan on end of crankshaft) over cylinders (with finned barrels) & the oil cooler,this cold air comes in thru the vent on the sides of your van at the rear.
The engine bay is sealed, so the fan only picks up cold air (forced down vents when moving) and blows it over engine then out thru bottom of van.
If the rubber seal is split or missing,it allows hot air from under van/exhaust`s to rise into engine bay & be blown back over engine re-circulating it & getting hotter & hotter.
 The tinware referred to is all the metal pieces shrouding engine & ducting forced air to the right places,essential to keep engine cool.
There is also an expanding thermostat with a cable that alters position of ducting flaps for quicker warm-up of engine & oil,this "fails" in the full cooling position,as long as cable allows it to or if it breaks.
The only hose i can think of at the alternator is a rubber boot going to back panel,air is sucked in here (by fan on alternator pulley) then blown thru/over heat exchangers in exhaust up to cab (if your lucky
 ) to provide roughly 1 mousepower of heat combined with that smell of exhaust fumes /burning engine oil |
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Ignore everything i say,especially between 4.30 on a fri,and mon morning it`s just beer fuelled sh*te!
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edweed
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Posted: 06 Oct 08 at 09:44 |
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ok, cheers for that! so is the tinware based in the engine bay or under the engine or in a combination of both locations?
your right about the rubber hose - it does come off the fan thing bolted onto the alternator and yes, the smell of exhaust fumes and minscule amount of heat does eventually pop out of one side of the dash vents - is this as good as the 'heating' get in my '81 joker???
finally, are there any simple tests to ascertain whether an engine is on its last legs? Ive got the original 2ltr which has been round the clock twice, (currently done about 230,000km), and ive saw loads of dubs advertised, prior to me buying this one, that had new engines fitted! Apart from the thing going up in a cloud of smoke - how do you know its time to bite the bullet?
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jason k
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Posted: 06 Oct 08 at 13:02 |
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compression test.
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edweed
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Posted: 13 Oct 08 at 08:18 |
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so what should the compression test tell me? is there a 'yardstick' to compare with or will it simply say 'good' or 'bad'?
i have stated to notice that the dub is using a fair amount of oil.....i guess this isnt a great sign!!!!
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jason k
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Posted: 13 Oct 08 at 12:47 |
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it will check if all four pistons are getting the same readings. and depending on the reading it indicates engine condition.
you say you are loosing oil, is it leaking or burning (blue smoke from exhaust??)
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Bcs shallowest surf award winner 2006
camperjam 2011 chug and tug team member aberdare. south wales newest member of karmann korner no longer the only moderator to manage to ban himself |
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edweed
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Posted: 13 Oct 08 at 13:35 |
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well, it has a small leak -but that only make the bottom of the sump damp. theres no great pool of oil under the van each night if thats what you mean, im guessing it burning a lot!
went down to devon yesterday from w-s-m and started van to come back which sounded really tappity, even after a few mins which is when it normally quietens down, so stopped and checked oil, (it was getting dark and hard to read), but it looked right on edge of dip-stick. anyway, topped up and all is fine - drove the van to work and no noises or leaks....but am concerned that loads of dubs have new engines fitted at way less the miles that mines clocked up, 230,000km, so could it be on last legs?
Also read somewhere on here theat the standard carbs are only good for about 80,000 miles before they wear out - mine are bound to be original, so theychecked out?
sorry to b a pain, but i dont knpw anyone/anywhere else to ask all these pain in the arse questions!!!
cheers...
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edweed wrote: