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2.5 DSG - to buy or not to buy!?

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    Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 00:05
Hi,

This is my first post on here but probably won't be my last! I've been looking for a T5 for a few months and think I've found one - it's a 2.5 DSG from 2008. It's got 110,000 miles on the clock and although I haven't seen the FSH documentation yet (I will before I commit to buying it!), it sounds like it's been looked after and doesn't have any dodgy history!

Are there are any massive gotchas I should be looking out for with the 2.5 (130bhp) or with the DSG - either when looking at the van or in the paperwork? 

I had originally wanted an auto but stopped looking when I figured they were just too rare. It's more miles than I would have wanted but everything else about it looks amazing - time will tell when I see it later this week.

I know it's a big of a vague question but any advice would be really welcome!

Thanks,

Nick

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny43.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 02:01
Only a silly question are you sure the van is DSG equipped as I thought it was only post 2010 that DSG auto's were fitted to the T5's , before that time the auto was a six speed Tiptronic . The DSG was only fitted to the T5.1 upgrade from around 2010 onwards . And the fact that its a 2.5 is another clue after 2010 the only engines were 2.0 litre Turbo Diesels and some petrol variants . We still have our 2.5 Turbo Diesel six speed Tiptronic auto bought new in 2005 . The main issues with this model that we have experienced is water pump failure at around 45000 kms no timing belt as ours is gear driven timing . Some reports of cam lobe wear mainly due to incorrect oil . Then there is the dreaded Tiptronic all good until the fluid inside deteriorates then valve bodies become sticky and will cause all sorts of problems and then there is the biggy . VW tell owners the auto is sealed for life and does not or cannot be serviced , this leads to the filter inside the auto to be come gradually blocked causing massive damage and complete loss of drive {yes happened to me} here in Australia its an $11000 repair bill .All because some moron in VW decided that the fluid will never decompose and loose its viscosity resulting in excess wear which helps to block the filter .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 02:40
As Sunny says, this will be the auto 'box, not a DSG.

Unless the fluid has been properly changed (which means 3 changes in quick succession to flush out the old oil in the torque convertor, or a complete dismantle) and the filter cleaned at around the 50-70,000 miles mark then there is a significant chance of problems with the gearbox.  Unless it has led a pampered life of almost all motorway miles (so not a lot of gearchanges) you are taking a risk.

Do an advanced search on here (using "any date" to catch all the older threads) and you'll see plenty of issues with the tiptronic box, what the symptoms are and what then happens.

A 2008 2.5 will have the later (good) cams and followers, and seem less prone to waterpump problems (but at that mileage it might be a good idea to replace it if it hasn't been done already).

The mileage shouldn't scare you off - a good 2.5 engine can go on for 3 times that.  

Make sure all the electrics work and you get a (working) spare key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev The Gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 06:04
Check the road tax, could be in the £450 bracket
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 08:43
Change the record Greg!

Despite all the (££££'s) problems you've had Greg with your beloved 'manual' box, you just can't help yourself when the opportunity arises to give Tiptronic/DSG boxes a good kicking.

There are many, many tiptronic/DSG's boxes doing sterling service and many with starship mileages. Look at any T5 taxi in London and pound to a penny, it'll be an auto!

Why don't the many shortcomings of the manual T5 boxes figure in your grumbles? I know the ratio between manuals and autos plays a part, but for every Auto giving trouble I'll bet there are at least 5x as many manual boxes playing up. Factor in the selector troubles, DMF failures and clutch problems and anyone of a nervous disposition should run away!

You and your Aussie mates have a downer on Auto T5's, we know, and please don't start listing all those web links to Australian T5 gripes.

Fact is, some vehicles do fail, abuse or just plain bad luck, either way, vehicle ownership can be expensive if something complicated fails. Live with it.

My 2004 130 2.5 Tiptronic is doing fine by the way, it's been with me since the start, always serviced on time and its cams and followers are original. You will no doubt say I've been lucky, I say that anyone with problems, manual or auto, has been unlucky!

Senate Square, Helsinki, 12 June 1993.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny43.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 11:16
Okay time for some simple explanations yes we Aussies are kicking the shit out of VW for what happened last year and previous years for that matter . The Tiptronic was sold with the VW service people told by VW Germany that it will not be able to be serviced as it's "Sealed for Life " Now VW Australia will not give a simple answer to the question what is life how long in time or distance all we got was stone silence when they were questioned . Next the DSG was released and lo and behold they tell people that due to Australia being declared a "HOT climate " country in 2010 they now recommend that the auto's be serviced every 60000 kms . Umm I am I missing something here VW have been selling cars in this country since before 1960 did our climate suddenly change in 2010?? No I don't think so . Now in my case we asked for ours to be serviced at 60000 kms and the request was refused , jump forward to 2012 and I am then told that YES they can now service them . So what do VW do beside removing your wallet of $600 for a service to the auto ? well lets see they applied a software update claiming it would fix the occasional slipping we were experiencing , then they removed a bolt from the sump and drained out the fluid . next they remove another bolt at the top of the box and refill it with fluid at $60 a litre . But wait 5 kms from the dealer it looses all drive why ? I can tell you . They did not remove the sump and replace a $45 internal filter along with a $15 gasket , they left the bottom of the sump inside covered in a slimy brown residue which was then mixed with the $60 a litre new clean fluid . So nice clean fluid is instantly contaminated plus it flushes out even more particles of worn components so it then makes a nice mess of debris to clog up the filter to the point that it robs the van of drive .So the clutches have been starved of sufficient lubrication causing even more damage along with god knows what else . I still have my blocked filter removed during the rebuild as evidence , this was photographed and sent to Germany and VW here and guess what more stone silence . You stated that maybe autos fail because of abuse in our case NO it was driven by my wife with our two disabled children in wheel chairs . Then bad luck again no , this failure was a direct result of
1. bad design why put a filter inside the box and tell everyone it cannot be serviced because they sealed it for life .
2. VW changed their stance on servicing the autos from none to every 60000 kms where does that leave some one like me who TRIED to have it done .
3. The utter disdain the displayed in saying our climate has changed so suddenly what a load of BULLSHIT .
The last thing was the Tiptronic was exposed in the US as a problem and the fact was covered up by VW , then last year whilst the rest of the world was given some help with problematic engines and gearboxes in some VW models , here in Australia VW stated the problems experienced by for instance the Japanese who had 68000 cars recalled was that unlike Australia Japan WAS a hot climate country with stop start traffic conditions . Again a total show of ignorance and stupidity I have watched many docos on TV and have NEVER seen a single piece of desert in Japan . Virtually 70% of Australia is desert with even the rest of the land mass having daily temperatures of in excess of 30c for up to 4 months of the year plus we also sit in stop start traffic for several hours morning and afternoons . So who is to blame for failures ? VW they ignored the basics of this country we drive huge distances some days alone in my work van I will cover more than 700 kms a day plus it is bloody hot what do you think that does to the auto and its fluids . Sorry for the rage but I do not consider having to spend $11000 on a major component after only 135000 kays a fair cop .The simple fact is that these vans should not have been sold here without some basic modifications . The auto should have had an external filter like the DSG now has hmmm wonder why . Then the auto should have been fitted with a auto trans cooler to keep the fluid in a reasonable condition . And finally like I pointed out a service schedule to keep these problems from possibly occurring .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 13:00
Fair enough Howard, but my point is exactly what you've experienced, the T5 auto is not loved in AUS and we know that on here and if our OP was from AUS then by all means, warn the guy.

As for the mythical VW customer service/reliability, well, we all know it's a myth or limelight that VW enjoy standing in.

In January I took my wife's (just out of warranty) DSG Golf to the main dealer for a routine service, I mentioned the world wide recall of the 7speed box. They played their hand like a true poker player, "DSG recall sir! Where have you heard that from? We don't know anything about a DSG problem!" Arseholes!

So it's not just in AUS where VW treat their customers badly, and don't get me started on 1.6tdi EGR valves and their £1k replacement cost after around 30k miles.......
Senate Square, Helsinki, 12 June 1993.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny43.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 13:12
Thanks Berisford I thought you might be down on us aussies but it seems not thank you for the support .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N&N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 16:27
Thanks for the comments guys - looks like I stumbled on a bigger debate!

VW have confirmed it's definitely the Tiptronic so I'll check to see what work - if any - has been done on the filter/fluid when I see the documents. I ran a couple of searches and when it didn't time out, I can see that there have been a few issues posted - various clonking/thumping, slipping between the gears etc.

I guess there are always going to be good ones and bad ones out there and part of it just comes down to luck. Will see how it looks and hopefully I'll own my first T5 camper very soon!!!


Cheers,

Nick


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 16:45
What price is the van N&N?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N&N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 17:04
17k.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 17:38
Originally posted by Berisford Berisford wrote:

Fair enough Howard, but my point is exactly what you've experienced, the T5 auto is not loved in AUS and we know that on here and if our OP was from AUS then by all means, warn the guy.

As for the mythical VW customer service/reliability, well, we all know it's a myth or limelight that VW enjoy standing in.

In January I took my wife's (just out of warranty) DSG Golf to the main dealer for a routine service, I mentioned the world wide recall of the 7speed box. They played their hand like a true poker player, "DSG recall sir! Where have you heard that from? We don't know anything about a DSG problem!" Arseholes!

So it's not just in AUS where VW treat their customers badly, and don't get me started on 1.6tdi EGR valves and their £1k replacement cost after around 30k miles.......


Err...what recall?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 17:42
You swallowed the special pill too M&C?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507401/Volkswagen-recall-cars-worldwide-faulty-gearbox-light-fuses.html

VW may have back tracked somewhat since the end of last year but even the VW site has info, it's poor when customers read stuff dealers claim to know nothing about.

BMW motorcycle dealers used to go on training courses I'm sure to learn how to give poker face blank and quizzical looks when customers mention any shortcoming in the product!

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/about-us/recall

...and please don't tell me that there's nothing amiss with 1.6tdi EGR valves. A scandal in itself.

Edited by Berisford - 26 Mar 14 at 17:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gasone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 21:55
well VW were done for price rigging or the like years ago so ignoring a problem is nothing new . All one can do is hope its not mine 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 14 at 22:53
I've never said manual T5 'boxes don't have their faults, but the loose bolt on the selector mechanism and a new clutch (a service part), or even a new DMF are MUCH cheaper issues to deal with than a worn-out tiptronic box that should have had its fluid changed a long time ago.  

The total failure that my manual box had is pretty rare ( I know, I looked for more examples and they were very few and far between).  I've seen a LOT more reports of failed/failing tiptronics.

Mr B, what mileage has your tiptronic done, and have you ever changed the fluid ?

I'm sure it's not just VW who try to wriggle out of fixing faults, the accountants are in charge of most companies these days and they will do whatever it takes to reduce costs (= increased profits = bigger bonuses for company executives).

And to be fair, I'm sure more than a few owners abuse their vehicles and then try to get them fixed under warranty.

IIIRC the VW DSG recalls started in the US several years ago for Golfs (trust those over-litigious yanks to stir up some speedier responses).


Edited by gregozedobe - 26 Mar 14 at 22:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny43.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 14 at 06:10
Interesting comment "a few people abuse their vehicles " I have been abusing my 2005 T5 which is equipped with a pathetic 2.0 petrol engine coupled to a manual gear box with DMF for now over 9 years . Its not that I am deliberately trying to break the thing its just that sometimes coordination of gear shifting and clutch and throttle does not seem to work very smoothly . Its a me thing I have never been kind to manual gear boxes etc . Autos are fine but I could not justify the extra price for one here in Australia so I went manual . BUT here is the thing I just love my work T5 for 9 years it has never let me down nothing has fallen off [unless it was because I did not see a post or something that jumped out and tore off the side mirrors] The engine has over 250000kms and is going fine [admits here it is a bit down on power compared to my old 2.5 T4 petrol] The gear box is fine clutch was changed around 200000 kms . I did not realize it had a DMF so it stays there and shudders in reverse like a bastard HA HA . So my take on things is that VW should stick to basic technology the more technical they make their cars it seems that there are more expensive problems occurring .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 14 at 14:25
Did you buy it N&N?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 14 at 09:38
A wee bit of the track Davy Mayne has a tiptronic Caddy auto, took it to get the fluid changed and filter and now it rattles on tick over and not changing smoothly.

He's a wee bit upset.

Will keep you posted on the out come.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny43.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 14 at 12:48
Yes from reading posts on this forum some time back quite a few reports were noted about changing the fluid and the outcome . Apparently the valve bodies can get sticky if you change the fluid sometimes it will help and other times it can make it worse , the gunk that builds around the valve bodies in some cases is best left alone but if flushed it then makes them work erratically . I believe that VW should have made the auto with an external filter or at least had a service schedule where the dealer would remove the sump clean out the box and fit a new filter a lot of them would not have failed if that was the case .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 14 at 14:21
Quite possibly right there Sunny, though the case Alasdair mentions above will surely be a DSG box?
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