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1Y Timing after head rebuild - any suggestions

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Chappy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 09:02
Good morning all,

So, to set the scene: my nieces's fella has a Westy Weekender with a 1Y engine installed, that he had an issue with.

Long story short - he snapped a glowplug off and the efforts to remove said plug rendered the head scrap.

I obtained a replacement head - kindly supplied by Jaber of this very same forum, and I rebuilt it: valves lapped in, new seals, gaskets, and a full set of new lifters.

Head has been installed by his neighbour, and it's running.

Here's the 'but':  The guy who installed it (another friend of the family) doesn't have experience on these vans/engines - he's a Ford tech by trade, so his mechanical ability to install the head isn't in any doubt, but he's limited (by his own admission) on how to time them up.

It runs, but lots of black smoke.

Is there a guide or best practice on how to time up a 1Y that's had all the pulleys off?

I have the kit for a JX (cam locking plate, pump locking pin and DTI for pump) but don't know if it's the same process for a 1Y.

Any help or guidance gratefully received!



  






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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 09:47
Timing them up is fairly straightforward.
Set crankshaft at tdc using flywheel mark. (not crank pulley as they are not always particularly accurate).
Taper on cam pulley released then have cam locking plate at other end installed.
Injection pump timing pin installed with vernier bolts on pulley slackened to allow timing belt tension to be set, and once that's done you nip up the injection pump pulley vernier bolts and cam pulley bolt.
With the cam pulley bolt lightly nipped up to lock the taper, I then remove the cam locking plate before I fully torque the cam pulley bolt as you don't want to break the end of the cam. I made a tool that holds the cam pulley for this procedure.
The locking tool is not meant to lock the cam for bolt tensioning procedure.

The problem you describe could be like the following situation.
I helped out a lad recently with a 1X (basically a 1Y) in a T4.
He's managed to do timing belts like this before after I'd shown him. However this time he had managed to get the timing pin in the wrong position because there is actually a position where the pin will slot in several degrees before and after the proper place. Casting reliefs on the pump casing housing allow this to happen.
He had poor starting and smoke. I re-timed everything and it was then fine.

The engine in a T4 leans forward so the angle the injection pump sits at means the pump timing pin is not fitted at the top. Could be a similar situation in a T3 with the engine lying on its side.


Edited by danstervan - 20 Feb 19 at 09:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 10:51
Great, thanks fella, I’ll let you know how we get on 👍🏻
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 19 at 22:28

Update!

It lives!

It's a bastard to start, not aided by a crap battery (which I'll sort - using a booster for now).


But it does run, and idles nicely - but is very smokey and mechanically noisy when revved.

I suspect an element of timing adjustment required to account for an aged pump.

Cam was set with plate, plump was pinned and the crank was set with the recess between the two marks on the clutch cover/bellhousing.

Am I missing anything else?






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 19 at 08:27
Pump timing.

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

Easier to do by ear IMO but may best to set with a gauge first and then adjust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 19 at 20:55
Hi, why don’t y use the pump on that engine I sent y it did start first crack every time

Steve
take yer time there's a second prize
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 19 at 22:56
It had crossed my mind, and may yet still be a potential action.

But it ran really well before the head issue, so I’ve no reason to suspect the current pump is shagged.

I’ll try some timing adjustment and see how it goes - I’ll let you know!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 19 at 07:45
How long have you had it running for since replacing the head, has the bottom pulley been off?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 19 at 18:26

No, just a head replacement. Bottom (crank) pulley hasn’t been disturbed.

We’re just getting it timed up after the head replacement.

I didn’t take the head off, or replace it, but it’s now back in my custody to get it timed up and running.

Edited by Chappy - 09 Mar 19 at 18:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 19 at 19:46

So, pimp is set with a pin, cam is set with a plate and feeler gauges, crack set at TDC at bellhousing/clutch cover between the two marks.

Hand rotated a couple of times and all is well - it comes back to the marks no problem.

Fitted a gauge in the pump and it says says 1.7mm of lift at TDC!

What’s the protocol for adjusting the pump lift on a 1Y with vernier bolts on the pump pulley? I know it’s a dumb question - put it down to me being tired!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 19 at 23:39
As you were! I’ve worked it out.

Must stop breaking into the garage beer fridge when I’m working on the vans. 😊
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 16:19
Has the running improved with the pump adjustment?
The 1Y being an indirect injection engine like having all the glow plugs working for a quick start.

The adjustable vernier pump pulley design makes it easier to tweak pump timing than the older method of fixed pump pulley and rotating the pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 18:09
Nope, afraid not.

What sort of lift should I be setting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 18:27
Your post above stated you'd worked it out!

There is a link about pump timing and setting upthread but to save wear on your mouse wheel scrolling back up, I've looked at a manual and 1Y and AAZ are to be set between 0.83mm and 0.97mm, but ideally 0.9mm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 21:16

Well, I’d worked it out in theory!

I re-read the post and got the setting - and set it at 0.9 this evening .

It took a few goes, but it does run 🙂

Still smokey and noisy, but it’s running nevertheless and has an even idle.

Now that I’ve got confidence that the timing and the pump are set correctly I can reassess to see what’s making it noisy and smoky.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that injectors/delivery valves etc have been affected during disassembly/storage/reassembly.

Given the smoke and the knock/rattle when revved - it seems likely that it’s fuel delivery related.






Edited by Chappy - 11 Mar 19 at 21:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 21:34
Get it running and heated up properly. It can take time for hydro tappets to properly adjust themselves and any residual air in fuel system will also need time to clear. Both these can make an engine noisy.
Plus if it's been running shit for a while, no doubt it'll have residual gunk in the exhaust that will take a bit of time to burn off and clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 21:40

Good call, I'll do that.

The tappets is a good point - it had a full set of new ones, all of which needed to be compressed slightly before installation to get some of the oil out and avoid holding open a valve.

I'll let it run for a while and report back.

Thanks for all the advice and direction - very much appreciated   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 19 at 09:11
How long have you had it running for , how loud is the noise ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 19 at 17:30

A few minutes at most.

It’s smooth on idle, if a little smokey - but mechanically noisy when revved, with more smoke.
May be noisy due to cam cover being off, but to my ear it has a degree of diesel knock about it.

I’ll get it running tonight and let it idle up to temp. May well be noisy because the cam cover of and new tappets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 19 at 21:00
needs to run a while, it will
Sound knocky from
Cold, very knocky, if it sounds like a hammer on an anvil it’s probably a sticky injector  , if it sounds like a spanner tapping a vice it’s normal 
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